Faith without works explained

[BelieveItOarKnot]

And it's not either/or; read the Parable of the Talents or Bags of Gold, Matt 25. God is expecting, demanding, some return and increase in the grace and righteousness He gives us, rather than our lazily burying the gift as if "investing" it is all a futile endeavor. He demands holiness and gives us the means to acheive it. We mock Him and the sacrifice of His Son (Gal 6:7,

What makes you think every word of that parable does not apply to you and everyone else?

Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

Man shall live by "every word of God." Not just the words we prefer to heap upon ourselves and cast upon other people the words we don't care to apply or hear.

 

[fhansen]

What makes you think every word of that parable does not apply to you and everyone else?

Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

Man shall live by "every word of God." Not just the words we prefer to heap upon ourselves and cast upon other people the words we don't care to apply or hear.

Oh. But has it occurred to you that Christ's followers may be challenged by His words, open to all of them while knowing that they may not live up to them, rather than heaping any particular ones upon themselves.

OTOH, you've managed to disregard and ignore a whole bunch of His words here so far, being pretty selective on which ones you heed as far as I can tell.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Oh. But has it occurred to you that Christ's followers may be challenged by His words, open to all of them while knowing that they may not live up to them

The evil in no man will ever be justified, or ignored, by God.

Were people the only entities in sight here you'd have a point. But that's never been the case.

Most are engaged in trying to make the spirit(s) of disobedience "behave" and "be moral" and "lawful" etc etc.

That will never happen

OTOH, you've managed to disregard and ignore a whole bunch of His words here so far, being pretty selective on which ones you heed as far as I can tell.

I have no need to try to look at only one aspect of the equations when the whole of it is true.

There is both blessing and cursing. I've learned the cursing is also in my behalf, as well as in behalf for all.

When your position reads, it throws away half the book and says "this doesn't apply to ME."

It all applies

 

[fhansen]

I have no need to try to look at only one aspect of the equations when the whole of it is true.

There is both blessing and cursing. I've learned the cursing is also in my behalf, as well as in behalf for all.

Yes, the whole is right, and consistent. But if one looks at it they won't arrive at your conclusions. And the cursing is in my behalf because its purpose is to steer me away from sin that leads to death. Otherwise, in fact, if all are saved regardless, there's really no need for the bible to begin with, no need for us to know anything about blessings or cursings or any of the rest of God's revelation.

When your position reads, it throws away half the book and says "this doesn't apply to ME."

"this doesn't apply to ME" is the province of those who believe that no sins could ever be counted against them, not just past sins but present and future as well. The passages that tell us that sin results in death, that we can compromise and lose our saved status/eternal life by returning to the flesh, by failing to live as a child of God should, must be ignored.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Yes, the whole is right, and consistent. But if one looks at it they won't arrive at your conclusions.

What conclusions?

Otherwise, in fact, if all are saved regardless,

Never made that claim

there's really no need for the bible to begin with, no need for us to know anything about blessings or cursings or any of the rest of God's revelation.

Illogical extrapolation ^^^

We're not better sinners, regardless

 

[fhansen]

What conclusions?

The ones you've stated, that man cannot and need not "improve" as a result of being justified.

Never made that claim

My mistake-for some reason I was thinking you believed in universal salvation but, if I recall correctly now, you claim we must acknowlege our sinfulneses and believe they're not counted against us, that we're then forgiven regardless of any future sin which we cannot possibly overcome anyway.

Illogical extrapolation ^^^

That was based on my thought that were maintaining a universal salvation position.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

The ones you've stated, that man cannot and need not "improve" as a result of being justified.

As stated prior, dominion over sin isnt eradication.

We don't make the tempter or his own any less the sinners. They are the ones we have dominion over, if we're not lying hypocrites that is

My mistake-for some reason I was thinking you believed in universal salvation

Everyone has Universalist beliefs of various sorts. We both for example believe that the devil and his messengers are universally condemned. So do I believe Everyone is saved? Obviously not them

but, if I recall correctly now, you claim we must acknowlege our sinfulneses and believe they're not counted against us, that we're then forgiven regardless of any future sin which we cannot possibly overcome anyway.

Jesus doesn't attribute sins to people. Doesn't mean He doesn't count them against the devil's. He does.

That was based on my thought that were maintaining a universal salvation position.

I believe Jesus gets the job done for people. Nobody saves themselves. Not capable

 

[fhansen]

I believe Jesus gets the job done for people. Nobody saves themselves. Not capable

Yes, nobody saves themselves. But they can still refuse to be saved; they can keep carrying on the family tradition of preferring themselves over God as Adam did, and as the devil does. But it seems that we're at a dead-end here as I see it. We keep trading viewpoints and Scripture, and it doesn't seem to make a dent either way. I'll move on. Thanks for the conversation; there seems to be an almost undending number of variant positions on the gospel to learn of.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Yes, nobody saves themselves. But they can still refuse to be saved

Let's recognize that God hasn't slated everyone to see "like me or you" in this present life.

We do know for a hard scriptural fact that people are blinded and stolen from by Satan. So where is your factor for that? Why do you blame the captives and ignore the chief thief in these matters? Had God Himself not pulled back the curtain of Satan for YOU or I, neither of us would have seen. We'd still be an ignorant pawn of the prince of the power of the air, the spirit of disobedience. That would be Satan. Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2

Further, do you think our battles with Satan actually decreased after we were "saved?" Uh, no. These engagements increase. We are not the only party in play within us. We still have understanding and Word stolen from within us, theft being a sin. Temptation is internal and of the tempter. Evil lawless thoughts come from within and these DO defile us. Mark 4:15, Mark 7:21-25 and many others likewise.

Your positions simply bypass the other party out of ignorance. Nothing personal. It's the gaping hole with most of these various splits and theories.

preferring themselves over God as Adam did

Again and again, you fail to recognize the role of our adversary in Adam and Eve and only blame and accuse them.

Adam was God's son. Luke 3:38. He was also the flesh progenitor of our Lord. I'd have a little more respect and not "count sins" against him. And in any case of sights God has absolutely ZERO intentions of leaving Adam stranded in a wet dust pile forever. He was bound, like all people are, with weakness, corruption, dishonor in a natural body that is subject to termination. 1 Cor. 15:42-46

For the record, I don't even think it's you making the various gaffes of leaving out the enemy from these pictures. Who is doing it should be obvious