Faith Precedes Regeneration #6

[Rick Otto]

quote=Arcoe;Maybe you don't understand me. I believe the word and change my thinking and believing according to the truths presented therein. This is called faith.

I'm thinking faith is the believing, & "conversion" &/or "repentance" is the act of changing thought.

If grace is given to the humble, it would include any and all perceived forms of it. One thing the Bible is clear on, is it is given to the humble. You call it 'earned', I call it obedience. It's very simple; once we obey, it is given.

That is an exchange, not an unmerited gift.
Grace in exchange for humble obedience.
Actualy being obediant is an unmerited gift because it comes from faith whichis also a gift.

 

[bradfordl]

I'm thinking faith is the believing, & "conversion" &/or "repentance" is the act of changing thought.

That is an exchange, not an unmerited gift.
Grace in exchange for humble obedience.
Actualy being obediant is an unmerited gift because it comes from faith whichis also a gift.

Yes, the dude abides. Been some few years, Rick. How's tricks out on the flatlands?

 

[Rick Otto]

Yes, the dude abides. Been some few years, Rick. How's tricks out on the flatlands?

Nothin' new. Still waitin' for this world to end & expecting to be disappointed on the 21st.
(My son is playing R.E.M. End of the world as we know it).
Finaly hooked up with the WQestminster Confession on how secondary causes establishes personal responsibility within predestination, or more broadly, determinism.
So I'm just peachy!
How's 'bout yo' self?

 

[1509]

Yes! Regeneration does preceed faith, because the natural man does not receive the things of God, is under the influence of Satan, and considers the gospel to be foolishness.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

 

[1509]

Maybe you don't understand me. I believe the word and change my thinking and believing according to the truths presented therein. This is called faith.

If grace is given to the humble, it would include any and all perceived forms of it. One thing the Bible is clear on, is it is given to the humble. You call it 'earned', I call it obedience. It's very simple; once we obey, it is given.

In fact, Peter says the same thing in his first book, chapter 5, verse 5: "God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble".

They are humble because they are regenerated, all humans are born sinners full of pride, serving self, and they are their own god.

 

[bradfordl]

Nothin' new. Still waitin' for this world to end & expecting to be disappointed on the 21st.
(My son is playing R.E.M. End of the world as we know it).
Finaly hooked up with the WQestminster Confession on how secondary causes establishes personal responsibility within predestination, or more broadly, determinism.
So I'm just peachy!
How's 'bout yo' self?

Still breathin'. Lord has sent some difficult days, but as you know has remained faithful to His promises. Still waitin' myself. Glad to see you're preachin' the truth, bro. I mean, if a man's gonna be preachy, might as well be right, right?

 

[gmm4j]

Acts 15:9
He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.

Their hearts were made pure (new) by faith. A purified heart is a regenerated heart, and it is regenerated or purified by faith. This does not say that by having a regenerated pure heart, it caused them to have faith. Instead, impure hearts are regenerated and made pure hearts by having faith first.

Again the order is:

1.Faith
2.Pure (new/regenerated) hearts.

 

[Arcoe]

Acts 15:9
He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.

Their hearts were made pure (new) by faith. A purified heart is a regenerated heart, and it is regenerated or purified by faith. This does not say that by having a regenerated pure heart, it caused them to have faith. Instead, impure hearts are regenerated and made pure hearts by having faith first.

Again the order is:

1.Faith
2.Pure (new/regenerated) hearts.

And again we read from Paul:

Romans 5:2 -
through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

No access into grace is granted without faith first.

Order -
1. Faith
2. Access into grace

 

[gmm4j]

True, True

 

[1509]

Acts 15:9
He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.

Their hearts were made pure (new) by faith. A purified heart is a regenerated heart, and it is regenerated or purified by faith. This does not say that by having a regenerated pure heart, it caused them to have faith. Instead, impure hearts are regenerated and made pure hearts by having faith first.

Again the order is:

1.Faith
2.Pure (new/regenerated) hearts.

Negative, read it again, it says grace through faith, which one comes first?? Grace comes first, no grace no faith.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

If God does not show unmerrited favor towards a person, that person is cooked.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[gmm4j]

Hey 1509,

I would love to have you exegete:

Rom 5:2
through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.

and,

Acts 15:9
He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.

I will do the same with the Eph 2 and Rom 8 verses you have presented as soon as I get a chance.

Bless you!

 

[1509]

Hey 1509,

I would love to have you exegete:

Rom 5:2
through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.

and,

Acts 15:9
He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.

I will do the same with the Eph 2 and Rom 8 verses you have presented as soon as I get a chance.

Bless you!

Are you trying to tell me that man makes a free will choice by his own self righteousness??

 

[gmm4j]

Are you trying to tell me that you are not going to tell me what "gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand" means?

Or,

What, "He purified their hearts by faith" means?

 

[Arcoe]

Negative, read it again, it says grace through faith, which one comes first?? Grace comes first, no grace no faith.

Much like Disney World through its gate. You must pass through its gate before you get into Disney World. So, no gate, no Disney World.

Or, salvation through Christ. You must first have Christ before salvation. No Christ, no salvation.

So, grace comes through faith.

 

[Rick Otto]

You don't get to go through the gate until you have a purchased ticket (grace). Saved by grace, then we're allowed through the gate of faith to the Magic Kingdom,... uh, I mean, heaven.
1Cor2:14 proves until we are regenerated, we have no knowlege of or desire for spiritual things which is what faith is. So until we are in His mercy saved by grace, we don't have a spiritual thing like faith.

 

[gmm4j]

1 Cor 2:14 doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

[Rick Otto]

1 Cor 2:14 doesn't mean what you think it means.

Sure it does. You must be mistaken.

 

[1509]

Much like Disney World through its gate. You must pass through its gate before you get into Disney World. So, no gate, no Disney World.

Or, salvation through Christ. You must first have Christ before salvation. No Christ, no salvation.

So, grace comes through faith.

:o Sorry, faith is not a self righteous act of man.

 

[gmm4j]

Hey Rick (you are in red),

Originally Posted by gmm4j

1 Cor 2:14 doesn't mean what you think it means.
​

Sure it does. You must be mistaken.


Look at the context:

1 Cor 2:1-3
When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

1 Cor 2:4-6
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power. 6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature,

1 Cor 3:1-3
Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly-mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly.

You said,
1Cor2:14 proves until we are regenerated, we have no knowlege of or desire for spiritual things which is what faith is. So until we are in His mercy saved by grace, we don't have a spiritual thing like faith.

No. It proves there is a spiritual message of wisdom for the mature that the man without the Spirit will not receive. It doesn't say an unregenerate man cannot place his faith in the demonstration of the Spirit's power or the simple message of Christ and Christ crucified - just the opposite. That is why Paul came with a simple message and the power of the Holy Ghost.... So, they could place their faith in it! Blessings!

 

[Arcoe]

Are you trying to tell me that man makes a free will choice by his own self righteousness??

Men make a free-will choice regardless of which 'righteousness' you want to say exists. And how you got 'self-righteousness' from Romans 5:2, I'll never know.