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According to the scriptures: Faith is believing the gospel for salvation.
According to Calvinism: Predestination is one predetermined or chosen to be regenerated and enabled to believe for salvation.
The scriptures state that salvation is a gift from God available to whosoever believes or places faith in Christ. Salvation is received by faith.
Calvinism states that salvation is a gift of God available only to those who are predestined. Salvation received by predestination.
Like the man said, there is no contradiction between predestination and salvation through faith.According to the scriptures: Faith is believing the gospel for salvation.
According to Calvinism: Predestination is one predetermined or chosen to be regenerated and enabled to believe for salvation.
The scriptures state that salvation is a gift from God available to whosoever believes or places faith in Christ. Salvation is received by faith.
Calvinism states that salvation is a gift of God available only to those who are predestined. Salvation received by predestination.
Then according to Calvinism it is actually only by predestination that one is saved, because if one is not predestined or chosen for salvation to start with, then according to Calvinism "faith" will never occur. So without predestination, which is devoid of faith in Calvinism, salvation is not possible.Calvinism says that God regenerates the hearts of the elect; thereby making them receptive to the Gospel when it is preached to them. Salvation is through faith in Christ.
Those who are not chosen for salvation are left with an unregenerate heart, along with their rebellion against God and the Gospel.
According to Calvinism the gift of God's salvation is not available to all men because the atonement, according to Calvinism, is LIMITED only to those God predestines to regenerate and causes to believe by Irresistible grace.Like the man said, there is no contradiction between predestination and salvation through faith.
One correction to something you said in your post though. Calvinists believe and teach that salvation is a gift of God available to all men who will but believe.
Salvation is not received by predestination as you say.
While it is certainly true that only those predestined to believe and elected to be the recipients of His grace will believe and be saved through faith - neither predestination nor election saves anyone - only a personal faith.
then according to Calvinism "faith" will never occur.
The church is pretty much in agreement that Jesus said,It is hard to support a claim that the Bible is 'crystal clear' on any issue where the church is divided about 50/50, and even harder to assert it without giving any scripture reference for it.
For topics like this, it is good to start from the point at which most Christians would agree.
Calvinists simply quote what the scriptures clearly say about the inability of fallen men. These scriptures do indeed make the claim that truly understanding salvation and taking the salvation message to heart is something fallen men cannot do without help from on high.Calvinism, for example, goes beyond these agreed upon points about the depravity of man to claim that man is so tainted by sin that he cannot even accept the offer of Christ’s salvation and receive Christ's deliverance from sin (contrary to scripture, which asks us to receive the message and believe: Rom 10:9-13, John 3:14-21, Luke 11:5-13, Heb 11:13-16, Gal 3:24, Deut 30:11-14, etc, and makes no claim that this is something man cannot do).
Because they accept what the scriptures clearly say, Calvinists hold that something else needs to happen for a select few cursed men to have faith. As usual they appeal to the scriptures to illustrate how it works in various ways. They do, however vary as to exactly how such invisible and inscrutable happenings actually work. While some insist on the term “regeneration”, some are more content with simply referring to God’s drawing men to Himself and opening the eyes of some even though they do not deserve such treatment and obviously do not seek God etc.Because they take this philosophical stance, most Calvinists hold that something else needs to happen for a select few to have faith: ............The Bible is not 'crystal clear' that any of these variant theories are true.
The doctrine of special calling, over against general calling, is logically inescapable – when one believes what is said above and when they consider what is taught in the so called golden chain of salvation found in Romans 8.The term 'special calling' is not used in scripture.
Fully agreed to. Therefore men are without excuse.What scripture does say is that Christ came into the world to 'enlighten every man,' that God revealing salvation through Christ is an act of grace, that Jesus draws all things (including all people) to Himself via His death, that the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, etc. All these things are acts of grace that man might turn from his sin and to Jesus in faith, so that he might be saved.
Here are just a few of the many specific acts of grace that God has given to all men:
Grace is Christ; the gift of God; God revealed. (Heb 1:3, I Cor 1:4-5, John 4:10)
Grace is Jesus coming to enlighten every man (Jn 1:9)
Grace is salvation offered to all people in Christ: (Titus 2:11, John 12:3-33, Matt 4:12-17, Psalm 67:1-3)
Grace is salvation granted through faith (Eph 2:8-10, Rom 5:1-2, Joel 2:32), not by works of law.
Grace is Christ delivered to death that we might live: (Rom 4:25, Gal 2:20-21, Rom 5:6-8)
Grace is the conviction of the Holy Spirit in regards to sin and righteousness and judgement: (Jn 16:8)
Grace is the preaching of the gospel throughout the nations that some might hear and believe (Rom 10)
Grace is Jesus drawing all things to Himself by His death, that we might come to Him (Jn 12:32)
Grace is Jesus opening the door to any who seek Him
Etc.
I fully agree.And further graces are given to believers:
Grace is the gift of justification; being declared righteous; through Christ: (Rom 5:12-19)
Grace is pardon from God's wrath, and reconciliation with God: (Rom 5:6-11)
Grace is eternal life granted to those who believe: (John 3:16-17, Rom 6:23, John 1:1-3)
Grace is the Holy Spirit dwelling with us: (Acts 19:2, Eph 4:30, I Cor 6:19)
Grace is our transformation as a New Creation, growing up into the headship of Christ: (Gal 6:16, II Cor 5:17, Col 3:5-11)
Grace is our adoption as sons: (Gal 4:4-6, Rom 8:15))
Etc.
We merit none of those graces. The promises God gives to believers for later fulfillment are His guarantee out of grace that He will make good on His Word - not because we merit it, but because it is the covenant He made in His wisdom and righteousness.
I agree. Fallen men will not come to Him that they may have life. Men are without excuse.That there are men who refuse to do this because they love their own sin or refuse to come into the light doesn't mean they weren't given the grace to do so. Christ fulfilled and gave everything necessary for our salvation by His death.
Calvinists do not teach that God specifically authors every event which happens. They teach that God decides which things He will allow to happen while emphatically saying that His predestination of everything which happens in no way infringes on the wills of men and angels.It's a huge difference between believing, as scripture teaches, that God is sovereign over all Creation and believing that God specifically picks and chooses everything that happens. (An idea which God specifically rejects in passages such as Jer 19:5, Jer 32:35, James 1:13, etc.)
I completely agree. This is why I feel not only free but obligated to accept only those things in Calvinism and, for instance, Arminianism which are supported by scripture.Nor does accepting what the Bible teaches on God's sovereignty and predestination mean that one must logically accept what Calvinism or other theories of man interpret those terms to mean.
I fully agree – as does the so called “Calvinistic” Westminster Confession of Faith. God works through “means” to bring to past what He has predestined to take place. Some of those secondary means are the so called “free” choices of men.Other tasks he might delegate to angels or men, who He created with the capacity (though not permission) to disobey, although they too are bounded by the limits of their nature and capabilities. While God often defers judgment when we disobey, that doesn't mean He allows our disobedience or caused it.
I totally agree.Just as someone disobeying a king will face judgement for breaking the law, so will humans unless we take the offered pardon (faith in Christ, where God applies Jesus' righteousness to us.)
Salvation is by grace through faith. The grace is our election and enlightenment which was predestined to occur in the lives of believers from before the foundation of the world. The faith is our personal apprehension of the demands of the gospel message which was made possible to cursed men by that grace.The last sentence was "receiving salvation? Is it faith or predestination?" That's not a false dichotomy, since scripture gives the answer:
Scripture says we receive salvation through faith. (Rom 3:25, Jn 3:16, Gal 3:2-5, Eph 2:8, etc.) Even Eph 1:1-15 clarifies that salvation is through hearing the gospel and believing and never says we are saved through being predestined.
Complete agree with this.Faith is made possible by grace as God predestined. Specifically, though, God predestined believers to be adopted as sons into His kingdom, and to be Holy and blameless, etc. since before time began. (Eph 1:1-15)
He predestined everything which occurs in His creation to so occur. Belief in His omniscience demands that we believe that doctrine.He didn't predestine some to become believers and some not.
I specifically said that it was available to "all men who would but believe".According to Calvinism the gift of God's salvation is not available to all men because the atonement, according to Calvinism, is LIMITED only to those God predestines to regenerate and causes to believe by Irresistible grace.
No - salvation is received by faith.Salvation must be received by predestination according to Calvinism and what you stated above,
That is an absolutely scripturally supported statement.......... no one can believe or have faith for salvation unless they are predestined and called by irresistible grace first.
No - the gospel in Calvinism is salvation through faith by believing on Jesus as one's personal Savor just as it is in most Protestant theologies.So the gospel according to Calvinism is logically and in reality, salvation by predestination according to the theology of Calvinism...T.U.L.I.P.
How did you read that out of what I said? Faith can only arise through the grace of God. The alternative is a heresy called Pelagianism. Calvinism merely takes that fact to its logical conclusion, whereas Arminianism tries to dodge it.
I wish to point out that the OP is not about Calvinism.
It is about whether there is an irreconcilable rift between believing in salvation through faith vs. believing in predestination. There is not IMO.
Very good explanation. People should pay attention.It is hard to support a claim that the Bible is 'crystal clear' on any issue where the church is divided about 50/50, and even harder to assert it without giving any scripture reference for it.
For topics like this, it is good to start from the point at which most Christians would agree.
For example, most Christians would agree that man cannot earn salvation or merit it via good works (Rom 3:20.) Most would agree that our flesh was corrupted by sin at the fall; that sin corrupts every aspect of our being, such as flesh, heart, mind, etc, (Mark 7:21-23). We'd agree that all men sin (Rom 3:10-23), and we'd agree that man cannot save himself (Psalm 60:10-12, Is 63:5-6).
We would also agree that man, of his own volition, would not have been able to achieve salvation nor come up with the idea of needing to have faith in Christ on His own.
Yet here is where many theories depart from each other.
Calvinism, for example, goes beyond these agreed upon points about the depravity of man to claim that man is so tainted by sin that he cannot even accept the offer of Christ’s salvation and receive Christ's deliverance from sin (contrary to scripture, which asks us to receive the message and believe: Rom 10:9-13, John 3:14-21, Luke 11:5-13, Heb 11:13-16, Gal 3:24, Deut 30:11-14, etc, and makes no claim that this is something man cannot do).
Because they take this philosophical stance, most Calvinists hold that something else needs to happen for a select few to have faith: Some believe it is spiritual regeneration that must occur *before* one believes to allow the person to believe (contrary to scripture which states we receive the Holy Spirit after we believe, not before: Gal 3:2-3, Gal 3:10-14, Eph 1:11-14, II Cor 5:17, etc). Others hold that Jesus just grants a select few faith (a misinterpretation of Eph 2:8 - see What does it mean that it is by grace we have been saved, through faith, and that this is not of ourselves but is the gift of God?). Still others take the view that the Holy Spirit overwhelms a select few, basically convincing them by sight so they can't possibly doubt.
The Bible is not 'crystal clear' that any of these variant theories are true. The term 'special calling' is not used in scripture.
What scripture does say is that Christ came into the world to 'enlighten every man,' that God revealing salvation through Christ is an act of grace, that Jesus draws all things (including all people) to Himself via His death, that the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, etc. All these things are acts of grace that man might turn from his sin and to Jesus in faith, so that he might be saved.
Here are just a few of the many specific acts of grace that God has given to all men:
Grace is Christ; the gift of God; God revealed. (Heb 1:3, I Cor 1:4-5, John 4:10)
Grace is Jesus coming to enlighten every man (Jn 1:9)
Grace is salvation offered to all people in Christ: (Titus 2:11, John 12:3-33, Matt 4:12-17, Psalm 67:1-3)
Grace is salvation granted through faith (Eph 2:8-10, Rom 5:1-2, Joel 2:32), not by works of law.
Grace is Christ delivered to death that we might live: (Rom 4:25, Gal 2:20-21, Rom 5:6-8)
Grace is the conviction of the Holy Spirit in regards to sin and righteousness and judgement: (Jn 16:8)
Grace is the preaching of the gospel throughout the nations that some might hear and believe (Rom 10)
Grace is Jesus drawing all things to Himself by His death, that we might come to Him (Jn 12:32)
Grace is Jesus opening the door to any who seek Him
Etc.
And further graces are given to believers:
Grace is the gift of justification; being declared righteous; through Christ: (Rom 5:12-19)
Grace is pardon from God's wrath, and reconciliation with God: (Rom 5:6-11)
Grace is eternal life granted to those who believe: (John 3:16-17, Rom 6:23, John 1:1-3)
Grace is the Holy Spirit dwelling with us: (Acts 19:2, Eph 4:30, I Cor 6:19)
Grace is our transformation as a New Creation, growing up into the headship of Christ: (Gal 6:16, II Cor 5:17, Col 3:5-11)
Grace is our adoption as sons: (Gal 4:4-6, Rom 8:15))
Etc.
We merit none of those graces. The promises God gives to believers for later fulfillment are His guarantee out of grace that He will make good on His Word - not because we merit it, but because it is the covenant He made in His wisdom and righteousness.
Related topics:
What is Calvinism and is it biblical? What are the five points of Calvinism?
What are the doctrines of grace?
Can natural, fallen man do anything that is spiritually good?
As posted above, God gave many graces to man (not by our merit or works, but for His own glory by His own will and purpose) which all men may respond to in faith. Just as any of the plagued Israelites could look upon the snake, by the grace of God, so any man can look upon Christ and receive the message, responding in faith so that he might be justified. That there are men who refuse to do this because they love their own sin or refuse to come into the light doesn't mean they weren't given the grace to do so. Christ fulfilled and gave everything necessary for our salvation by His death.
It's a huge difference between believing, as scripture teaches, that God is sovereign over all Creation and believing that God specifically picks and chooses everything that happens. (An idea which God specifically rejects in passages such as Jer 19:5, Jer 32:35, James 1:13, etc.)
Nor does accepting what the Bible teaches on God's sovereignty and predestination mean that one must logically accept what Calvinism or other theories of man interpret those terms to mean.
Here are some topics that dive into predestination and God's sovereignty in depth:
How does God's sovereignty and mankind's free will work together in salvation?
Is God sovereign or do we have a free will?
How are predestination and election connected with foreknowledge?
Are we predestined to know Christ?
To briefly summarize the crucial differences, however, 'predestination' in scripture is a Greek term that means to set limits or boundaries. It doesn't imply the connotations of the English term destiny. The laws of nature are a great example of this: God predestined that the sea could only move so far, that molecules are bound by His laws, etc. God's sovereignty is tied into this as the laws of nature are bound to His will, and He can supersede them if needed. Other tasks he might delegate to angels or men, who He created with the capacity (though not permission) to disobey, although they too are bounded by the limits of their nature and capabilities. While God often defers judgment when we disobey, that doesn't mean He allows our disobedience or caused it. [Does God allow moral evil?]
Just as someone disobeying a king will face judgement for breaking the law, so will humans unless we take the offered pardon (faith in Christ, where God applies Jesus' righteousness to us.)
I would agree with this.
The last sentence was "receiving salvation? Is it faith or predestination?" That's not a false dichotomy, since scripture gives the answer:
Scripture says we receive salvation through faith. (Rom 3:25, Jn 3:16, Gal 3:2-5, Eph 2:8, etc.) Even Eph 1:1-15 clarifies that salvation is through hearing the gospel and believing and never says we are saved through being predestined.
Faith is made possible by grace as God predestined. Specifically, though, God predestined believers to be adopted as sons into His kingdom, and to be Holy and blameless, etc. since before time began. (Eph 1:1-15) He didn't predestine some to become believers and some not.
He predestined everything which occurs in His creation to so occur. Belief in His omniscience demands that we believe that doctrine.
God knew from the beginning everything which would happen if He acted in certain ways in the beginning and in innumerable ways ongoing throughout history. There was no chance that, if He acted in those specific ways, what He knew would happen as a result would not happen.
Those events were predestined to happen from the split second, as it were, that He decreed that He would so act.
He chose to so act in those certain ways out of His wise and unfettered will. In so choosing to act – He was predestining everything which surely would follow those actions,
Those things include mundane things which are not directly pertaining to the will of men and they include things which come about because of the choices made out of the wills of men (who are created in His image and able to make meaningful choices).
How God could hold men, who have their very being in Him and who’s actions are destined by God to occur, responsible for their choices if He is sovereign in the way the scriptures show Him is admittedly a bit of a mystery. But we can’t just duck that mystery by showing Him to be less the sovereign God than the scriptures clearly tell us He is.
I think it can be boiled down to this. Monergists believe grace is sufficient. Synergists believe grace is necessary.
What must you do to be born again?Non-Calvinists are not synergists. Is monergism or synergism correct?
This thread would make farther progress if scripture, not philosophy or ad-hominems or false equivalents and accusations of heresy, was the primary support both Calvinists and Non-Calvinists and the undecided (etc.) we're using.
And Calvinists do not seem to believe that the grace God has given all men (including drawing man to Christ by His death, Holy Spirit convicts of sin, etc.) is sufficient, because TULIP teaches that a further grace is needed for anyone to be able to respond to the gospel (such as regeneration by the spirit so they can respond in faith, or being granted faith outright, or other variants of the holy Spirit granting special grace to a select few.) Please correct me if I am misunderstanding the theory, and Calvinists truly believe that God's grace through Christ on the cross really is sufficient for any human to respond to the gospel in faith.
I think Calvinism started out with a noble idea of preserving God's sovereignty, but I often wonder if the Calvinist has fully thought through the implications of their beliefs as it relates to the character and attributes of God?
And the cool t-shirts.The one and only valid reason for being a Calvinist is that the Bible seems to teach it. Any other consideration is extraneous.
This thread actually is about Calvinism in that it is about the what I believe to be the differences between the soteriology and the biblical gospel verses the gospel of Reformed/Calvinistic theology or T.UL.I.P.I wish to point out that the OP is not about Calvinism.
It is about whether there is an irreconcilable rift between believing in salvation through faith vs. believing in predestination. There is not IMO.
I hate to see the thread hijacked away from the OP and end up being just another bash and defense of Calvinism thread.
Calvinism is neither opposed to salvation by faith and neither is Calvinism synonymous with predestination.
Likewise predestination is not synonymous with election. The two doctrines are somewhat related as are all biblical doctrines. But they are not the same doctrine.
This thread is not about salvation through faith vs. Calvinism.
It is about whether there is a conflict between the doctrine of salvation through faith and the doctrine of predestination. There is not IMO.
But that is what the discussion should be about should it not?
The one and only valid reason for being a Calvinist is that the Bible seems to teach it. Any other consideration is extraneous.
Your own post points to there being no contradiction between predestination and salvation through faith in Christ; unless you think faith is something different from "believe the Gospel."
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