Faith in Faith or Faith in Christ?

[W2L]

This is not out of context. Faith comes from the Holy Spirit. Human faith comes from the flesh and is indeed sinful.

I never heard of human faith.

 

[now faith]

This is not out of context. Faith comes from the Holy Spirit. Human faith comes from the flesh and is indeed sinful.

Then we are live in constant acts of sin.
As I said human Faith is just that, a simple believe in what we experience and what we see.
Spiritual Faith is Faith in God.
We in Christ walk by Faith and not by sight.

 

[Dave L]

I never heard of human faith.

Human faith = Al Capone doing bad deeds believing he won't get caught. It's the same self serving faith people have even in religious matters. But it's not biblical faith.

 

[Dave L]

Then we are live in constant acts of sin.
As I said human Faith is just that, a simple believe in what we experience and what we see.
Spiritual Faith is Faith in God.
We in Christ walk by Faith and not by sight.

Even the plowing of the wicked is sin.

“An high look, and a proud heart, And the plowing of the wicked, is sin.” (Proverbs 21:4)

 

[W2L]

Human faith = Al Capone doing bad deeds believing he won't get caught. It's the same self serving faith people have even in religious matters. it's not biblical faith.

Yes but this human faith is not evil in itself, is it? I can have faith crossing the street, faith in the odds that i wont get hit by a car. Is that evil?

 

[Dave L]

Yes but this human faith is not evil in itself, is it? I can have faith crossing the street, faith in the odds that i wont get hit by a car. Is that evil?

Wrong motive = sin. And apart from having the Holy Spirit and faith, all we do is sin.

 

[now faith]

I never heard of human faith.

It is of a common life experience.
It is confined to our understanding of what our mind perceives.
What is being promoted here is back door Calvinism
If you twist your mindset you will be expected to make a logical presumption toward Calvinism.

 

[Dave L]

It is of a common life experience.
It is confined to our understanding of what our mind perceives.
What is being promoted here is back door Calvinism
If you twist your mindset you will be expected to make a logical presumption toward Calvinism.

Wrong motive - sin. Even the best works fall short.

 

[now faith]

It's too nice of day to banter go have some rest

 

[hhodgson]

If you have the Holy Spirit in your heart, you need not choose to believe, you cannot help but to believe.

“The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God’s children.” (Romans 8:16)

Not sure of your contextual meaning here is but, in order to accept Christ... you must turn to Him and believe. That's choice!

Actually, (once you have accepted, "by choice" Christ as your Saviour, the choosing to believe just (begins) in our daily lives. In the spirit, our salvation is complete and our old sin nature is (now) dead and gone, (but), it left behind a soul and body that we have to (daily) deal with by choice. Now, (Romans 12:2-3) says we are to "offer our bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service." [and]... "Be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." This would be a "continuous" choosing."

Also, to the "believer" our faith is (in God) or, we wouldn't even be a... "believer." (Grace makes, Faith takes) is the condition (together) to receive anything from God. It is a choice.

Deuteronomy 30:19 (NKJV)
I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

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[SavedByGrace3]

Heresy Hunter...
Wasting you time.
Faith Derangement Syndrome.

 

[Dave L]

Not sure of your contextual meaning here is but, in order to accept Christ... you must turn to Him and believe. That's choice!

Actually, (once you have accepted, "by choice" Christ as your Saviour, the choosing to believe just (begins) in our daily lives. In the spirit, our salvation is complete and our old sin nature is (now) dead and gone, (but), it left behind a soul and body that we have to (daily) deal with by choice. Now, (Romans 12:2-3) says we are to "offer our bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service." [and]... "Be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." This would be a "continuous" choosing."

Also, to the "believer" our faith is (in God) or, we wouldn't even be a... "believer." (Grace makes, Faith takes) is the condition (together) to receive anything from God. It is a choice.

Deuteronomy 30:19 (NKJV)
I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

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Belief in Christ comes from experiencing him in your heart. If you must choose to believe it is because you don't.

 

[PastorJoey]

Yes, but the mindset is the fruit of the Spirit. Not the means of obligating God to respond.

I disagree. The fruit of faith (faithfulness) along with the other fruit of the Spirit (as cultivator of the human spirit) is not for receiving from God but developing into the character of Christ. And no one has ever suggested that faith is ”obligating” God to anything. He has already promised, faith receives. ...
But back to the topic: it is abundantly clear that faith is a condition that must be met in order to receive from God. If faith as you say is completely a work of the Spirit in us as a fruit, then would it be just for Christ to rebuke anyone for lacking something the Spirit Himself failed to produce in them?

 

[hhodgson]

Belief in Christ comes from experiencing him in your heart. If you must choose to believe it is because you don't.

Dave, Just curious. In your view, how do we experience Christ in our hearts? Thanks.

 

[Dave L]

Dave, Just curious. In your view, how do we experience Christ in our hearts? Thanks.

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God regenerates our dead human spirit giving us the Holy Spirit. We hear the gospel and it speaks to our hearts. We believe because we are saved. God does not save us because we choose to believe. And it is the nature of the new birth to hate sin and love holiness. So repentance follows along with a change in lifestyle.

 

[Dave L]

I disagree. The fruit of faith (faithfulness) along with the other fruit of the Spirit (as cultivator of the human spirit) is not for receiving from God but developing into the character of Christ. And no one has ever suggested that faith is ”obligating” God to anything. He has already promised, faith receives. ...
But back to the topic: it is abundantly clear that faith is a condition that must be met in order to receive from God. If faith as you say is completely a work of the Spirit in us as a fruit, then would it be just for Christ to rebuke anyone for lacking something the Spirit Himself failed to produce in them?

If faith is a condition, you change the gospel into law and salvation is by works from that point on.

 

[PastorJoey]

Belief in Christ comes from experiencing him in your heart. If you must choose to believe it is because you don't.

I’m not sure of the rules but I’m pretty sure If I were over in the Calvinist forum I would ebooted by now

If faith is a condition, you change the gospel into law and salvation is by works from that point on.

you've said that once before and still you’ve supplied no supportive texts nor replied to my answers. Your problem is with the Word itself. Can you explain how that Hebrews 11:6 does not show human conditions? Thank you

 

[Dave L]

I’m not sure of the rules but I’m pretty sure If I were over in the Calvinist forum I would ebooted by now

you've said that once before and still you’ve supplied no supportive texts nor replied to my answers. Your problem is with the Word itself. Can you explain how that Hebrews 11:6 does not show human conditions? Thank you

Characteristics of those who believe are not conditions to meet. If I say whosoever believes will be saved, it is simply a way to recognize those whom God saved. But you read into it a condition that does not exist.

 

[PastorJoey]

Characteristics of those who believe are not conditions to meet. If I say whosoever believes will be saved, it is simply a way to recognize those whom God saved. But you read into it a condition that does not exist.

Ok so you are a Calvinist. That’s fine, explains a lot. Blessings

 

[Dave L]

Ok so you are you a Calvinist. That’s fine, explains a lot. Blessings

I'm not a Calvinist. Just a bible student who believes salvation is by grace.