Faith in Faith or Faith in Christ?

[SavedByGrace3]

So you rob God of his glory and apply it to yourself......

No, please read what I said. The fruit pertain to the spirit of Christ that was born into us. "We", that is our old adamic spirit, no longer exist. "Us" passed away when we were born again. All things were made new.
I can see why you are confused about faith, salvation, and the fruit. You do not know the fundamental doctrines of the doctrine of Christ. Yet you presume to teach? I think Heb 5:12-6:3 pertains here.

Heb 5:
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Heb 6:
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.

I really do not want to be insulting or rude. But please learn the basic baby doctrines. Then come back and teach us.

Faith is covered in the fundamental doctrine "faith toward God."
The new birth is covered in the fundamental teaching "doctrine of Baptisms." (i.e. baptism into Christ)

 

[Dave L]

No, please read what I said. The fruit pertain to the spirit of Christ that was born into us. "We", that is our old adamic spirit, no longer exist. "Us" passed away when we were born again. All things were made new.
I can see why you are confused about faith, salvation, and the fruit. You do not know the fundamental doctrines of the doctrine of Christ. Yet you presume to teach? I think Heb 5:12-6:3 pertains here.

Heb 5:
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Heb 6:
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.

I really do not want to be insulting or rude. But please learn the basic baby doctrines. Then come back and teach us.

Faith is covered in the fundamental doctrine "faith toward God."
The new birth is covered in the fundamental teaching "doctrine of Baptisms." (i.e. baptism into Christ)

Human faith is sin. It originates in the flesh. Biblical faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, something God gives to us.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Human faith is sin. It originates in the flesh. Biblical faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, something God gives to us.

Prove it. Scripture.

 

[Dave L]

Prove it. Scripture.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22)
Find faith here: “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21)

 

[SavedByGrace3]

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22)
Find faith here: “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21)

That is the fruit of your reborn spirit. No justification for the capital S here.

 

[Simon the Tanner]

Most translations say "faithfulness". https://biblehub.com/galatians/5-22.htm

How could you be born again by faith if faith was something you get after you're born again? You can't produce fruit of the Spirit before you have the Spirit. And as Didaskalos said, it's talking about the human spirit. The context of that passage is the flesh vs. the spirit, not the flesh vs. the Holy Spirit.

 

[now faith]

Been WoF since they called it the Faith Movement. since around 1973. 45 years.
Not sure who teaches "faith in your faith."
If they died because of this misguided teaching... I am sorry, but I am not surprised.
I stopped trying to defend other people's misconceptions about what I believe.

It can be a accusation I have heard among hard core Calvinist.
Just like all the rest of the lies about our Faith.
Hyper Faith ,prosperity Gospel grab it blab it lol DiDs you have been told all that by the critics.
That's all they have !
Adhominim ignorant attacks.
They can have the poverty Gospel, hyper doubt claim nothing in Gods Word.

 

[now faith]

So you rob God of his glory and apply it to yourself......

We are made in the image of God, we are the Sons of God.
We do not need Rob what has been freely given.

 

[now faith]

If faith is a condition for salvation, your faith is in yourself having faith and not in God.

Without Faith it is impossible to please God.
Why?
Because you must trust Him and believe in the grace given to us in Christ
It is right before your eyes why would you confuse this?

Ephesians 2: 4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved 6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[now faith]

Human faith is sin. It originates in the flesh. Biblical faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, something God gives to us.

Human Faith is not thinking about your car starting, it is presumption
Why is it sin?

 

[Dave L]

Human Faith is not thinking about your car starting, it is presumption
Why is it sin?

Whatever is not of faith is sin. And human faith is not biblical faith which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dave L]

Without Faith it is impossible to please God.
Why?
Because you must trust Him and believe in the grace given to us in Christ
It is right before your eyes why would you confuse this?

Ephesians 2: 4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved 6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If you have the Holy Spirit in your heart, you need not choose to believe, you cannot help but to believe.

“The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God’s children.” (Romans 8:16)

 

[Dave L]

We are made in the image of God, we are the Sons of God.
We do not need Rob what has been freely given.

If you think salvation is conditional (not of grace) you change the gospel into law and end up saving yourself = robbing God of his glory.

 

[Dave L]

That is the fruit of your reborn spirit. No justification for the capital S here.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” (Ephesians 2:8)

 

[PastorJoey]

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. It is a gift of grace, not a mindset (condition) God will honor.

I agree that faith is not a mindset, but it will CAUSE a mindset. Scripture speaks of more than one type of faith: as a fruit (Gal. 5), as a gift (1 Cor 12) and that which comes by hearing the Word (Rom. 10:17). The type of faith that receives from God, and that Jesus rebuked his disciples for lacking was not the fruit or gift, but their trust in His the Word. You pretty much have to ignore scripture not to see that faith is a condition for receiving from God. Am I in a Word of Faith thread? It has been a while since I’ve visited.

 

[Dave L]

I agree that faith is not a mindset, but it will CAUSE a mindset. Scripture speaks of more than one type of faith: as a fruit (Gal. 5), as a gift (1 Cor 12) and that which comes by hearing the Word (Rom. 10:17). The type of faith that receives from God, and that Jesus rebuked his disciples for lacking was not the fruit or gift, but their trust in His the Word. You pretty much have to ignore scripture not to see that faith is a condition for receiving from God. Am I in a Word of Faith thread? It has been a while since I’ve visited.

Yes, but the mindset is the fruit of the Spirit. Not the means of obligating God to respond.

 

[now faith]

Whatever is not of faith is sin. And human faith is not biblical faith which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

You are taking Romans 14 out of context.
Paul teaches that the weaker Brother should not be tempted by our Faith.
If the weaker Brother does not have the Faith, and fails it is sin.

Romans 14: 20. For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 21. It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22. Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
For those in Christ with Faith we walk in the Spirit.
As the Spirit guides us, we are not condemned for what we allow.
But the weaker Brother does not have the faith, to follow in our walk.
If He falls it is sin.
Human Faith is not Faith of God but of works.
This depends on the individual application.
Faith without works is dead,in the spirtual context.
But Faith your car will start is human Faith as well.
You are mixing Faith up between it's applications from the natural to the spiritual.

Romans 14: 3. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

 

[Dave L]

You are taking Romans 14 out of context.
Paul teaches that the weaker Brother should not be tempted by our Faith.
If the weaker Brother does not have the Faith, and fails it is sin.

Romans 14: 20. For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 21. It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22. Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
For those in Christ with Faith we walk in the Spirit.
As the Spirit guides us, we are not condemned for what we allow.
But the weaker Brother does not have the faith, to follow in our walk.
If He falls it is sin.
Human Faith is not Faith of God but of works.
This depends on the individual application.
Faith without works is dead,in the spirtual context.
But Faith your car will start is human Faith as well.
You are mixing Faith up between it's applications from the natural to the spiritual.

Romans 14: 3. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

This is not out of context. Faith comes from the Holy Spirit. Human faith comes from the flesh and is indeed sinful.

 

[now faith]

If you think salvation is conditional (not of grace) you change the gospel into law and end up saving yourself = robbing God of his glory.

If you believe in salvation without Faith, you may be a Calvinest.
Irresistible grace?

Irresistible grace (or efficacious grace) is a doctrine in Christian theology particularly associated with Calvinism, which teaches that the saving grace of God is effectually applied to those whom he has determined to save (the elect) and, in God's timing, overcomes their resistance to obeying the call of the gospel, bringing them to faith in Christ. It is to be distinguished from prevenient grace particularly associated with Arminianism which teaches that the offer of salvation through grace does not act irresistibly in a purely cause-effect, deterministic method, but rather in an influence-and-response fashion that can be both freely accepted and freely denied.[1]

Wickipeda

 

[Dave L]

If you believe in salvation without Faith, you may be a Calvinest.
Irresistible grace?

Irresistible grace (or efficacious grace) is a doctrine in Christian theology particularly associated with Calvinism, which teaches that the saving grace of God is effectually applied to those whom he has determined to save (the elect) and, in God's timing, overcomes their resistance to obeying the call of the gospel, bringing them to faith in Christ. It is to be distinguished from prevenient grace particularly associated with Arminianism which teaches that the offer of salvation through grace does not act irresistibly in a purely cause-effect, deterministic method, but rather in an influence-and-response fashion that can be both freely accepted and freely denied.[1]

Wickipeda

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Not a work of the flesh.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22)