Faith--how much is too much?

[Alithis]

I guess I don't see going to a job (I don't have one at this time, however), or saving money, or having a gun for defense, or taking care of the house as being out of fear. I see it as being wise with my talents. If I have money, I feel it is wise to spend wisely and not squander it. If I'm willing to buy and learn to use a gun for defense, then it seems wise to defend myself if necessary. Taking care of the house, as well as my health also seems prudent. Can we really expect a house or our body to last if we don't take care of it? Wouldn't it be considered "putting God to the test" to just do whatever we want and not take care of things?

no one is suggesting you see it that way . but the truth is .. the talents are everything to do with the kingdom of God an d nothing to do with the pursuit of this world .
we need to learn that everything we have isn't (but can be ) used in the furtherance of the Gospel .
it is why we are here .
we don't live in the fullness of it ..not even close in my case , but we can begin to from this day on . by simply obeying the lord in the one thing he is is speaking to us about what ever it may be and no matter what it costs us .and then the next ..recurring .

we simply cannot ever exercise to much faith in the lord .. even Paul knew that he did not exercise enough faith.. how much more do we in the west lack ?

--" I do like how it was recently phrased by some one .."'salvation costs us nothing for it is by grace .. but if you wish to grow in and become a disciple (one obedient &disciplined in the "spiritual" and thus eternal ways of the lord JESUS ..it will cost you everything ." the lord Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.…and again he said -And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
there are "some" who (whether purposely or not i can't say ) imply that because it is all by grace that we need do nothing more ..and to be saved we need do nothing more .BUT ..to go on and become .to be transformed we must follow we must obey .
there are those that would have us sit back on our elbows comfortable in the knowledge that we are saved (to appease their own life style & conscience i suppose).. but doing so is the opposite of love for the many perish while we sit at ease .. that is not love .
those who sit at ease once saved by grace are no more then those who through fear bury there talent in the ground .. and as surely as the lord's word is true ,when he comes he will say ...
‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
“‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them."
such is the fate of the one who receives salvation and then sits back afraid to do anything with it and wont move out in faith but remains still ,in fear of man in fear of failure in fear of no pay check in fear of no food in fear of no shelter ..-instead of fearing God .. when we do not move or act or speak because of fear .. we are in truth walking in unbelief .the opposite of faith .
so to day i encourage everyone who calls on the name of the lord JEsus .. move out in faith . its ok he loves you the lord will be with you . start as small as you feel to ..give a little where you cant afford , speak a little where you thought you could not ,take the one single thing that the holy Spirit has been speaking to you about ..just that one thing in your life .. and begin doing it ..
we can never ever exercise to much faith in God .

 

[Neogaia777]

I’ve had some discussions with people here about faith that makes me wonder if there’s a degree of it that can be seen as taking it too far.

One person was telling me that having a job and working for a living was disobeying Christ. Christ said that we cannot serve 2 masters, and that money is the root of all (sorts of) evil. Therefore, going to a job for 8 hours a day is serving money, during which time we’re not serving God.

Another person was telling me that having a gun in the house for defense was relying on the flesh rather than having faith in God to protect us. They basically said that if a person broke into their home and tried to hurt them or their family, they’d run into the room calling on the name of Jesus and put themselves between the attacker and their loved one to shield them. The reasoning being that we are not the deciders of who lives and who dies and that if it’s our time to die, then it’s our time.

I’ve had other such discussions, but I think you see my point. But how far is going too far? At what point is it too much to say we’re living by faith and not relying on ourselves for our food, shelter, defense, etc.? Many other questions could be asked about relying on our own devices rather than on God. For example:

Do you wear a seatbelt when driving (where it’s legal not to)?

Do you have house insurance in case of a fire?

Do you have a savings account in case you lose your job or have unexpected expenses?

Do you maintain your vehicle and have it checked periodically to make sure it’s still safe to drive?

Do you eat healthy in order to stay healthy and disease-free and live longer?

Do you use antivirus programs on your computer?

The point is, doing any of these things may be seen as relying on ourselves, the flesh, or our own devices to keep us healthy, safe, and alive. But some would say that we shouldn’t do some, or maybe any of them. That would lead me to think that all we’re to do in this life is sit in one place and pray all day and hope for the birds to bring us our food, and for the electric company to not notice that we’re not paying our energy bill, and eat only enough to stay alive.

So how far is too far? What is your goal in your faith? And how do you manage to live in the faith successfully if you don’t live in the flesh in any way, or rely on your own devices to get by?

By the same logic, you could say that God doesn't want us to fix ourselves up in the morning... you know, personal hygene, brushing your teeth, fixing your hair, shaving, showering... no I think I'll just sit around in idleness and God will take care of it all for me... Sorry, not the way he operates, God meant for us to take care of things, you have to first choose to take a step and he'll walk with you the whole way... Your friend about the work thing is taking to literal, and besides that, we're all sinners, but I don't think taking a job or two, especially to support a family is not sinful at all...

God Bless!

 

[Alithis]

think on this ...

"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

to walk into the things the lord prepared in advance for us to do .. its is a growth that we must learn to give up doing what "we" desire ..in order to make ourselves available to desire and do what HE desires of us ..

 

[ToBeLoved]

The big thing is that when I looked up what they said in the bible, it seemed perfectly correct what they were saying. I guess context and meaning play a huge role, but it all seemed to line up. Maybe I'm just too gullible, but I've heard so many various interpretations of God's word and have been taken in by them. Sometimes it's hard to know which interpretation is correct.

Last night, I went through most of the book of Matthew, reading only the red letters (Christ's words). By today's standards (even Christian teaching standards), what He said sounded pretty extreme. It almost sounded like we're here only to pray and fast and talk to others about Christ. We need to own only what we really need and give away everything else to those who have less. We are not to enjoy pleasure because that is selfish (why should we have pleasure while the next guy is in need, which is always going to be the case). Anyway, this is what I took from it. 25 years of being saved and my understanding still isn't solid.

Keep in mind though, that in reading only the red, you were reading about the Only Holy One that has ever lived, Jesus. To only read Christ's words and not get the context of the situations and what Christ was trying to teach and the context of His words, you kindof set yourself up on that one. Please do not take this as I am chastising you, ok? My point being that context is everything and that what we hope to become is like our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. That is part of our sanctification, our learning, our growing.

Pray and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance. When you read, try to draw conclusions but not hard conclusions. Give the Holy Spirit time to work and teach you. Also, as I mentioned earlier with the BibileHub website, use the parallel feature, that will give you multiple bible versions to compare and the commentaries (like the Matthew Henrey commentary), these can greatly help.

The main thing is to not draw hard and fast conclusions because once we set our minds, the Holy Spirit has a hard time changing them. We need to seek the wisdom of the words.

 

[joshuanazar]

Did you know that Paul was a tent maker and even after he started to preach God's word he still worked for his living? (until the prison thing that is). But he even hasd to write and explain to some churches that just because he worked and wouldn't take their money didn't mean that he didn't love them, in fact it meant just the opposite. But Paul worked. And it could be that these people were just being hypocritical and they also work. Or it could be that they live with someone who takes care of them, which would also be hypocritical cause I guarantee that they look to that person for the support and not God.

 

[Aldebaran]

Did you know that Paul was a tent maker and even after he started to preach God's word he still worked for his living? (until the prison thing that is). But he even hasd to write and explain to some churches that just because he worked and wouldn't take their money didn't mean that he didn't love them, in fact it meant just the opposite. But Paul worked. And it could be that these people were just being hypocritical and they also work. Or it could be that they live with someone who takes care of them, which would also be hypocritical cause I guarantee that they look to that person for the support and not God.

Well, what they told me is that when we work, we are to work for, and out of, love. So when we work, we're supposed to do it because we are loving those we work for rather than loving a paycheck. He even said that we should be willing to work even if it meant no pay, because our goal shouldn't be for the money. Pinning him down on anything was like trying to nail a piece of jello to a wall.

 

[joshuanazar]

Well I can definitely see the importance of working out of love, and I occasionally work for free. While we are not to love money, we are supposed to be responsible.