Faith--how much is too much?

[Aldebaran]

I’ve had some discussions with people here about faith that makes me wonder if there’s a degree of it that can be seen as taking it too far.

One person was telling me that having a job and working for a living was disobeying Christ. Christ said that we cannot serve 2 masters, and that money is the root of all (sorts of) evil. Therefore, going to a job for 8 hours a day is serving money, during which time we’re not serving God.

Another person was telling me that having a gun in the house for defense was relying on the flesh rather than having faith in God to protect us. They basically said that if a person broke into their home and tried to hurt them or their family, they’d run into the room calling on the name of Jesus and put themselves between the attacker and their loved one to shield them. The reasoning being that we are not the deciders of who lives and who dies and that if it’s our time to die, then it’s our time.

I’ve had other such discussions, but I think you see my point. But how far is going too far? At what point is it too much to say we’re living by faith and not relying on ourselves for our food, shelter, defense, etc.? Many other questions could be asked about relying on our own devices rather than on God. For example:

Do you wear a seatbelt when driving (where it’s legal not to)?

Do you have house insurance in case of a fire?

Do you have a savings account in case you lose your job or have unexpected expenses?

Do you maintain your vehicle and have it checked periodically to make sure it’s still safe to drive?

Do you eat healthy in order to stay healthy and disease-free and live longer?

Do you use antivirus programs on your computer?

The point is, doing any of these things may be seen as relying on ourselves, the flesh, or our own devices to keep us healthy, safe, and alive. But some would say that we shouldn’t do some, or maybe any of them. That would lead me to think that all we’re to do in this life is sit in one place and pray all day and hope for the birds to bring us our food, and for the electric company to not notice that we’re not paying our energy bill, and eat only enough to stay alive.

So how far is too far? What is your goal in your faith? And how do you manage to live in the faith successfully if you don’t live in the flesh in any way, or rely on your own devices to get by?

 

[Alithis]

good thread

lets look at the precepts from extremism and then relate them to present so called reality and then submit them to the infinite power of the most High God in faith .

ie -was moses being extreme when he stood all night with a stick held out over the waters of the red sea while the egyptian army approached with haste to slay them all .. should he not have organised all the men of fighting age into some kind of defensive force ? was he being to extreme in his faith in Gods word telling him to "stand still " and see the salvation of god . when is too much faith too much ..? NEVER !

the question lays in when are we wiling enough to stand up and exercise faith .. remembering that faith is not based on what we see in the natural ..when we live based on what we see in the natural we doubt God .. and so do not walk in faith .walking in Faith is very difficult because it means doing and trusting god in things which cannot possibly work or even make sense ..but it is when we are absolutely weak to change our circumstance that God is shown to be easily strong enough to do so and then does so .
so the question lays in why do we do the things we do why do we own the things we own .
some may leap to defend doig and owning and that's fine .. some come to the lord already doing and owning .. ans then learn in relationship with God to lay down their lives ..firstly by removing from their hearts their faith in their own doing and owning .. but folks grow into that at differing pace . and some sadly teach that there is no cause to grow because God has done it all . but that is not the truth .
salvation costs us nothing , but the lord Jesus said discipleship will cost you everything .to become one disciplined in the ways of the lord ..it will cost us everything we have .
i note that the ones doing the work of the gospel ,the ones moving in the Power of the holy Ghost , knowing miracles in their lives, healing the sick raising the dead are all disciples ..not just believers- but believers who have them chosen to become disciplined in Gods service . they are ones who then go on to give up their own lives to take up the cross and follow the lord Jesus by listening to and obeying the holy Spirit . they trim their lamps and keep them filed with new oil .

so again the questions lay in the why ..in the mostive of our hearts
ie -

Why Do you have house insurance in case of a fire? or why did you purchase a house or why do you care so much for it -if you do

why Do you have a savings account in case you lose your job or have unexpected expenses? or why do you not trust God that if he provided the job for you he can also provide funds for you should you lose the job because he takes it from you .. why is it we can declare trust in God the the job yet with the same mout delacre god is unable to provide miraculously in time of need .. see the contradictions we declare ..we say i have faith that god gave me the job . but then our actions contradict our declaration because our actions say we do not have faith that god can do anything more then provide the Job .. these are the contradictions i see in my life and i know the lord is leading us all onto a more pure faith then this watered down self excusing form of it .


Do you maintain your vehicle and have it checked periodically to make sure it’s still safe to drive-?leave this one its another law one lol

Do you eat healthy in order to stay healthy and disease-free and live longer?yes . long story i was overweight and getting ill and god led me on a journey cause me to lose 19 kg in 2.5 months and made me healthy

Do you use antivirus programs on your computer?do open questionable mail or go to web sights of questionable morality which cause me to be at higher risk of getting viruses? - i have a free virus prog and i use a pc which is used by many in our lounge where every one can see what every one is doing on it ( a highly recommended family pc set up . lap top in kids rooms .. NOT a good idea ever .) everything we do we should endeavor to do in obedience to the word of God and always being honest about our heart motive.
to abide in the Spirit is to seek ,learn .listen and obey the Holy Spirit -to follow the good shepherd onwards into greener pastures ..we must listen to his voice and the rise up and do what his voice tells us to do .. if we don't we are left as sheep in the dark without a shepherd simply because he has moved on and we did not follow him and we become fodder for the wolves that move in ....................

 

[Aldebaran]

so again the questions lay in the why ..in the mostive of our hearts
ie -

Why Do you have house insurance in case of a fire? or why did you purchase a house or why do you care so much for it -if you do

I have it because a house is a large investment and a fire would cause me to lose it. Insurance is a safeguard against that. Am I wrong for having it?

why Do you have a savings account in case you lose your job or have unexpected expenses? or why do you not trust God that if he provided the job for you he can also provide funds for you should you lose the job because he takes it from you .. why is it we can declare trust in God the the job yet with the same mout delacre god is unable to provide miraculously in time of need .. see the contradictions we declare ..we say i have faith that god gave me the job . but then our actions contradict our declaration because our actions say we do not have faith that god can do anything more then provide the Job .. these are the contradictions i see in my life and i know the lord is leading us all onto a more pure faith then this watered down self excusing form of it .

I have it because I believe it's wise to put a little back in case of a "rainy day". Is that wrong to do?

Do you maintain your vehicle and have it checked periodically to make sure it’s still safe to drive-?leave this one its another law one lol

Having insurance is the law, not vehicle maintenance.

Do you eat healthy in order to stay healthy and disease-free and live longer?yes . long story i was overweight and getting ill and god led me on a journey cause me to lose 19 kg in 2.5 months and made me healthy

I'm glad to hear it! I've been trying to eat healthy as well. I never needed to lose weight, but as I get older, I know I'd be putting on some more easily. Being healthy trumps not being healthy.

Do you use antivirus programs on your computer?do open questionable mail or go to web sights of questionable morality which cause me to be at higher risk of getting viruses? - i have a free virus prog and i use a pc which is used by many in our lounge where every one can see what every one is doing on it ( a highly recommended family pc set up . lap top in kids rooms .. NOT a good idea ever .) everything we do we should endeavor to do in obedience to the word of God and always being honest about our heart motive.
to abide in the Spirit is to seek ,learn .listen and obey the Holy Spirit -to follow the good shepherd onwards into greener pastures ..we must listen to his voice and the rise up and do what his voice tells us to do .. if we don't we are left as sheep in the dark without a shepherd simply because he has moved on and we did not follow him and we become fodder for the wolves that move in ....................

My question simply was whether or not it is an act that demonstrates a lack of faith. I could either have faith that God will protect my computer from getting a virus, or I could install an antivirus program. However, is doing so a demonstration that I don't have faith in God to protect my computer from viruses, malware, hackers, etc.?

 

[ToBeLoved]

One person was telling me that having a job and working for a living was disobeying Christ. Christ said that we cannot serve 2 masters, and that money is the root of all (sorts of) evil. Therefore, going to a job for 8 hours a day is serving money, during which time we’re not serving God.

Aldebaran,

The person that you were talking to has got a very misinterpreted understanding of money. Like most things in life and like many things in the bible, it is not money that is the problem, the problem is more of a reflection of choices that someone can do with money. For instance, in the bible it talks about the most important commandment being to 'love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind'. We also know from the Old Testament that God is a jealous God in that He does not want anything in our lives to be more important than Him. When we place something of a very high importance or have pride in things we own or would be so sad if we one day did not have them anymore, than that is having an 'idol'. That could be a car if it is something that we take much pride in owning, but it doesn't have to be if our car is economical and needed for transportation. With any type of idol as well as money, it's very much inside of each person. God is into the heart. Big time. What God cares about is what is in our hearts and related back to the car, it could/would mean different things to different people. One way to think about what you have/own or how you spend your money is just thinking about the things you have or buy and if they were gone, how would that make you feel?

First and foremost God cares about our relationship with Him. There are many aspects to this relationship and again each person's relationship with God is different, but some of the ways that we keep in communion with God are through prayer, worship/singing, through reading the Word, fasting, through community (church) with fellow believers and sometimes just being still and in the rest of God. What God cares about is our spiritual growth and our spiritual lives. That is most important to God.

Then God cares next about who we are on the inside. Are we honest, do we tell the truth, do we treat others well, are we prideful or arrogant? Are we humble, gracious, patient, ect. Those are the inner qualities (or some of them) that God is interested in. Part of who we are comes out as how we treat other people in our lives (friends, co-worker's, even our enemies) and part of it is inside of us, like the things we think or what motivates us to do what we do.

Now the phrase that the other person used is that 'you cannot serve two masters' is really more related to God vs. satan, but the person just probably substituted money in there. Now money is not bad in itself, because money can be used to buy food for yourself or your family, the same with shelter and clothing. Money can be used to buy books to go to college or even college tuition, so money is not the problem, the problem is more about what we spend our money on and if what we want or what we buy and how much it means to us and how easy we could let it go (or even would we let it go)? I can have a tv at my house and use it to watch good things or I could choose to watch/order an X-rated channel. I could have wi-fi internet and use it for school and good things or for bad/evil. It is more what you do with what you have/buy/own.

Many wonderful people serve God each day at work. They are good to their co-workers, they are moral people, they do a good job at work and there is nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, your friend who says that a Christian should not work is not serving God with that attitude either. We are to do work to eat. We are to pay our own way. So that person has a weird way of seeing money and is not correct in their statement.

Do you get what I mean, or did I ramble on too much? lol

 

[Albion]

I’ve had some discussions with people here about faith that makes me wonder if there’s a degree of it that can be seen as taking it too far.

One person was telling me that having a job and working for a living was disobeying Christ. Christ said that we cannot serve 2 masters, and that money is the root of all (sorts of) evil. Therefore, going to a job for 8 hours a day is serving money, during which time we’re not serving God.

Another person was telling me that having a gun in the house for defense was relying on the flesh rather than having faith in God to protect us. They basically said that if a person broke into their home and tried to hurt them or their family, they’d run into the room calling on the name of Jesus and put themselves between the attacker and their loved one to shield them. The reasoning being that we are not the deciders of who lives and who dies and that if it’s our time to die, then it’s our time.

I’ve had other such discussions, but I think you see my point. But how far is going too far? At what point is it too much to say we’re living by faith and not relying on ourselves for our food, shelter, defense, etc.? Many other questions could be asked about relying on our own devices rather than on God. For example:

Do you wear a seatbelt when driving (where it’s legal not to)?

Do you have house insurance in case of a fire?

Do you have a savings account in case you lose your job or have unexpected expenses?

Do you maintain your vehicle and have it checked periodically to make sure it’s still safe to drive?

Do you eat healthy in order to stay healthy and disease-free and live longer?

Do you use antivirus programs on your computer?

The point is, doing any of these things may be seen as relying on ourselves, the flesh, or our own devices to keep us healthy, safe, and alive. But some would say that we shouldn’t do some, or maybe any of them. That would lead me to think that all we’re to do in this life is sit in one place and pray all day and hope for the birds to bring us our food, and for the electric company to not notice that we’re not paying our energy bill, and eat only enough to stay alive.

So how far is too far? What is your goal in your faith? And how do you manage to live in the faith successfully if you don’t live in the flesh in any way, or rely on your own devices to get by?

Indeed, this is taking "it" too far. But the "it" isn't Faith.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I’ve had some discussions with people here about faith that makes me wonder if there’s a degree of it that can be seen as taking it too far.

One person was telling me that having a job and working for a living was disobeying Christ. Christ said that we cannot serve 2 masters, and that money is the root of all (sorts of) evil. Therefore, going to a job for 8 hours a day is serving money, during which time we’re not serving God.

Another person was telling me that having a gun in the house for defense was relying on the flesh rather than having faith in God to protect us. They basically said that if a person broke into their home and tried to hurt them or their family, they’d run into the room calling on the name of Jesus and put themselves between the attacker and their loved one to shield them. The reasoning being that we are not the deciders of who lives and who dies and that if it’s our time to die, then it’s our time.

I’ve had other such discussions, but I think you see my point. But how far is going too far? At what point is it too much to say we’re living by faith and not relying on ourselves for our food, shelter, defense, etc.? Many other questions could be asked about relying on our own devices rather than on God. For example:

Do you wear a seatbelt when driving (where it’s legal not to)?

Do you have house insurance in case of a fire?

Do you have a savings account in case you lose your job or have unexpected expenses?

Do you maintain your vehicle and have it checked periodically to make sure it’s still safe to drive?

Do you eat healthy in order to stay healthy and disease-free and live longer?

Do you use antivirus programs on your computer?

The point is, doing any of these things may be seen as relying on ourselves, the flesh, or our own devices to keep us healthy, safe, and alive. But some would say that we shouldn’t do some, or maybe any of them. That would lead me to think that all we’re to do in this life is sit in one place and pray all day and hope for the birds to bring us our food, and for the electric company to not notice that we’re not paying our energy bill, and eat only enough to stay alive.

So how far is too far? What is your goal in your faith? And how do you manage to live in the faith successfully if you don’t live in the flesh in any way, or rely on your own devices to get by?

To answer your overall question, those things that you are asking about have more to do with living life and existing within society, than faith in God. We are called to be good stewards of our money, but also to be responsible citizens and obey laws. There is a verse in the bible that talks about those who have authority over us on this earth and that we are to obey the laws and live within that authority structure.

Faith is more about your relationship with God and walking with God on a daily basis. Praying about decisions before you make them or reading the bible about a subject to find out what is Godly, or getting advice from another Christian.

 

[Alithis]

ouh haha .. i never meant for you to answer the questions .they were rhetorical..
(but here .. vehicle maintenance is law also -that's neither here nor there . )
i was just reflecting on the topic
we cant ever exercise too much faith in God
but we can "claim to " and then impose that on others but are not actually walking in it ourselves .. which was what that certain poster was doing (and it was "...name mentioned before but glow not light " and about 3 companions from a sect that originated in australia.. ) that's not a good thing-it is a hypocrisy .

i endeavour to be absolute in honesty on these matters .but i won't ever dismiss these matters simply because i have not yet attained unto them . but will continue to seek to surrender my life more to God , letting go of the things of this world and my misplaced trust in this world , in order to take up the things of God .. as its written .. "to apprehend that for which i am apprehended and again -"Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
if one such as paul say he has not yet obtained ..one who walked in the manifestation of the power of god .. then how much more so is it true that we have not yet obtained . ans so how much more important is it that we do not resign and sit back content to be overcome but rather rise up to become overcomers .

 

[joshuanazar]

I’ve had some discussions with people here about faith that makes me wonder if there’s a degree of it that can be seen as taking it too far.

One person was telling me that having a job and working for a living was disobeying Christ. Christ said that we cannot serve 2 masters, and that money is the root of all (sorts of) evil. Therefore, going to a job for 8 hours a day is serving money, during which time we’re not serving God.

Another person was telling me that having a gun in the house for defense was relying on the flesh rather than having faith in God to protect us. They basically said that if a person broke into their home and tried to hurt them or their family, they’d run into the room calling on the name of Jesus and put themselves between the attacker and their loved one to shield them. The reasoning being that we are not the deciders of who lives and who dies and that if it’s our time to die, then it’s our time.

I’ve had other such discussions, but I think you see my point. But how far is going too far? At what point is it too much to say we’re living by faith and not relying on ourselves for our food, shelter, defense, etc.? Many other questions could be asked about relying on our own devices rather than on God. For example:

Do you wear a seatbelt when driving (where it’s legal not to)?

Do you have house insurance in case of a fire?

Do you have a savings account in case you lose your job or have unexpected expenses?

Do you maintain your vehicle and have it checked periodically to make sure it’s still safe to drive?

Do you eat healthy in order to stay healthy and disease-free and live longer?

Do you use antivirus programs on your computer?

The point is, doing any of these things may be seen as relying on ourselves, the flesh, or our own devices to keep us healthy, safe, and alive. But some would say that we shouldn’t do some, or maybe any of them. That would lead me to think that all we’re to do in this life is sit in one place and pray all day and hope for the birds to bring us our food, and for the electric company to not notice that we’re not paying our energy bill, and eat only enough to stay alive.

So how far is too far? What is your goal in your faith? And how do you manage to live in the faith successfully if you don’t live in the flesh in any way, or rely on your own devices to get by?

It seems as if the people that you were talking to about this did take it to the extreme by making faith some sort of work that we must do. None of those things are sins, they are wise things to do and shows that we can take care of the things that God gives us. It reminds me of the parable with the talents and one person decided not to be wise with the gift that his master gave him. Also the bible does not say that money is the root of all evil, it says that the love of it is. This person that says a job is serving two masters, what does he do? Who supports him? People say that they will do something (like running between the gun and their family) but until it happens we don't know and neither does that person. Trust God, just don't be stupid.

 

[brinny]

Faith--how much is too much?

I’ve had some discussions with people here about faith that makes me wonder if there’s a degree of it that can be seen as taking it too far.

One person was telling me that having a job and working for a living was disobeying Christ. Christ said that we cannot serve 2 masters, and that money is the root of all (sorts of) evil. Therefore, going to a job for 8 hours a day is serving money, during which time we’re not serving God.

Another person was telling me that having a gun in the house for defense was relying on the flesh rather than having faith in God to protect us. They basically said that if a person broke into their home and tried to hurt them or their family, they’d run into the room calling on the name of Jesus and put themselves between the attacker and their loved one to shield them. The reasoning being that we are not the deciders of who lives and who dies and that if it’s our time to die, then it’s our time.

I’ve had other such discussions, but I think you see my point. But how far is going too far? At what point is it too much to say we’re living by faith and not relying on ourselves for our food, shelter, defense, etc.? Many other questions could be asked about relying on our own devices rather than on God. For example:

Do you wear a seatbelt when driving (where it’s legal not to)?

Do you have house insurance in case of a fire?

Do you have a savings account in case you lose your job or have unexpected expenses?

Do you maintain your vehicle and have it checked periodically to make sure it’s still safe to drive?

Do you eat healthy in order to stay healthy and disease-free and live longer?

Do you use antivirus programs on your computer?

The point is, doing any of these things may be seen as relying on ourselves, the flesh, or our own devices to keep us healthy, safe, and alive. But some would say that we shouldn’t do some, or maybe any of them. That would lead me to think that all we’re to do in this life is sit in one place and pray all day and hope for the birds to bring us our food, and for the electric company to not notice that we’re not paying our energy bill, and eat only enough to stay alive.

So how far is too far? What is your goal in your faith? And how do you manage to live in the faith successfully if you don’t live in the flesh in any way, or rely on your own devices to get by?

Perhaps it isn't "too much faith" as it is a willful fleshly determination of self rather than "God's will". Man's will is devoid of wisdom and discernment. God's will isn't.

In addition, it reminds me of this:

“Humility is not thinking less of yourself but thinking of yourself less.” ~C.S. Lewis

To carelessly disregard the needs of others (especially victims, those in danger) with a sense of "false humility" is self-centered and willful, not God-centered and is devoid of wisdom and discernment whatsoever.

 

[Aldebaran]

It seems as if the people that you were talking to about this did take it to the extreme by making faith some sort of work that we must do. None of those things are sins, they are wise things to do and shows that we can take care of the things that God gives us. It reminds me of the parable with the talents and one person decided not to be wise with the gift that his master gave him. Also the bible does not say that money is the root of all evil, it says that the love of it is. This person that says a job is serving two masters, what does he do? Who supports him? People say that they will do something (like running between the gun and their family) but until it happens we don't know and neither does that person. Trust God, just don't be stupid.

That's the thing; they wouldn't tell me even after I asked about a dozen times. They always changed the subject, saying it's not about them and what they do, but about faith and living for Christ. All I wanted was a practical picture of what they were talking about.

 

[Aldebaran]

Aldebaran,

The person that you were talking to has got a very misinterpreted understanding of money. Like most things in life and like many things in the bible, it is not money that is the problem, the problem is more of a reflection of choices that someone can do with money. For instance, in the bible it talks about the most important commandment being to 'love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind'. We also know from the Old Testament that God is a jealous God in that He does not want anything in our lives to be more important than Him. When we place something of a very high importance or have pride in things we own or would be so sad if we one day did not have them anymore, than that is having an 'idol'. That could be a car if it is something that we take much pride in owning, but it doesn't have to be if our car is economical and needed for transportation. With any type of idol as well as money, it's very much inside of each person. God is into the heart. Big time. What God cares about is what is in our hearts and related back to the car, it could/would mean different things to different people. One way to think about what you have/own or how you spend your money is just thinking about the things you have or buy and if they were gone, how would that make you feel?

First and foremost God cares about our relationship with Him. There are many aspects to this relationship and again each person's relationship with God is different, but some of the ways that we keep in communion with God are through prayer, worship/singing, through reading the Word, fasting, through community (church) with fellow believers and sometimes just being still and in the rest of God. What God cares about is our spiritual growth and our spiritual lives. That is most important to God.

Then God cares next about who we are on the inside. Are we honest, do we tell the truth, do we treat others well, are we prideful or arrogant? Are we humble, gracious, patient, ect. Those are the inner qualities (or some of them) that God is interested in. Part of who we are comes out as how we treat other people in our lives (friends, co-worker's, even our enemies) and part of it is inside of us, like the things we think or what motivates us to do what we do.

Now the phrase that the other person used is that 'you cannot serve two masters' is really more related to God vs. satan, but the person just probably substituted money in there. Now money is not bad in itself, because money can be used to buy food for yourself or your family, the same with shelter and clothing. Money can be used to buy books to go to college or even college tuition, so money is not the problem, the problem is more about what we spend our money on and if what we want or what we buy and how much it means to us and how easy we could let it go (or even would we let it go)? I can have a tv at my house and use it to watch good things or I could choose to watch/order an X-rated channel. I could have wi-fi internet and use it for school and good things or for bad/evil. It is more what you do with what you have/buy/own.

Many wonderful people serve God each day at work. They are good to their co-workers, they are moral people, they do a good job at work and there is nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, your friend who says that a Christian should not work is not serving God with that attitude either. We are to do work to eat. We are to pay our own way. So that person has a weird way of seeing money and is not correct in their statement.

Do you get what I mean, or did I ramble on too much? lol

No, I think I get it. You're saying it's more about what's in your heart and how we view things rather than the things themselves. Right?

 

[ToBeLoved]

That's the thing; they wouldn't tell me even after I asked about a dozen times. They always changed the subject, saying it's not about them and what they do, but about faith and living for Christ. All I wanted was a practical picture of what they were talking about.

This is a good thing for you Aldebaran to have experienced. This person twisted the Word of God to make it seem like they were a Godly person 'by not working', saying that 'working for a living' was serving two masters. All of this as you can see is basic B.S. and twisting scripture.

Run from this sort of person! That is the lesson. When a person does not correctly state what the Word of God says, that is clue #1. When one twists what they say is the Word of God that is not to make their own situation (an Ungodly one at that) seem Christian, that is clue #2. When you follow-up with that person and they can not or will not explain what they said and how it relates to their faith as a Christian, that is clue #3.

These are classic things (clues #1-#3) that people do to deflect. Avoidance is one of them. Choose who you do and do not take counsel from wisely.

It is good you are asking questions and I think there are some things that can be learned from this.

 

[ToBeLoved]

No, I think I get it. You're saying it's more about what's in your heart and how we view things rather than the things themselves. Right?

Exactly. God looks at us from the inside a lot. God can see all of who we are and He knows us better than we know ourselves. Don't let people fill your head with religious dogma about how this is bad or this is good. Always take it back to God and look within yourself. That will always keep you on the right path.

 

[Aldebaran]

This is a good thing for you Aldebaran to have experienced. This person twisted the Word of God to make it seem like they were a Godly person 'by not working', saying that 'working for a living' was serving two masters. All of this as you can see is basic B.S. and twisting scripture.

Run from this sort of person! That is the lesson. When a person does not correctly state what the Word of God says, that is clue #1. When one twists what they say is the Word of God that is not to make their own situation (an Ungodly one at that) seem Christian, that is clue #2. When you follow-up with that person and they can not or will not explain what they said and how it relates to their faith as a Christian, that is clue #3.

These are classic things (clues #1-#3) that people do to deflect. Avoidance is one of them. Choose who you do and do not take counsel from wisely.

It is good you are asking questions and I think there are some things that can be learned from this.

The big thing is that when I looked up what they said in the bible, it seemed perfectly correct what they were saying. I guess context and meaning play a huge role, but it all seemed to line up. Maybe I'm just too gullible, but I've heard so many various interpretations of God's word and have been taken in by them. Sometimes it's hard to know which interpretation is correct.

Last night, I went through most of the book of Matthew, reading only the red letters (Christ's words). By today's standards (even Christian teaching standards), what He said sounded pretty extreme. It almost sounded like we're here only to pray and fast and talk to others about Christ. We need to own only what we really need and give away everything else to those who have less. We are not to enjoy pleasure because that is selfish (why should we have pleasure while the next guy is in need, which is always going to be the case). Anyway, this is what I took from it. 25 years of being saved and my understanding still isn't solid.

 

[Alithis]

also it was prophsied to paul that if he went to rome he would be bound lead away and

Faith--how much is too much?



Perhaps it isn't "too much faith" as it is a willful fleshly determination of self rather than "God's will". Man's will is devoid of wisdom and discernment. God's will isn't.

In addition, it reminds me of this:

“Humility is not thinking less of yourself but thinking of yourself less.” ~C.S. Lewis

To carelessly disregard the needs of others (especially victims, those in danger) with a sense of "false humility" is self-centered and willful, not God-centered and is devoid of wisdom and discernment whatsoever.

just to clarify , being that he raised it in the op ..- to rush into a situation where an intruder was attacking ones loved ones ..to rush in calling on the name of the lord and getting between your loved ones and the attacker (which may cost you your life ) ... how would that be classed as careless disregard for the needs of others ? when in essence it is simply love expressed outwardly to do so . and it is done in faith that God is able to do ALL things and with him nothing is impossible and if one dies in the effort that too is the will of the father who already knows the number of our days .. i reiterate ,we cannot Ever exercise too much faith in God .the ultimate faith is the knowing that regardless of the outcome .. he is able to raise us up again on the last day .
the greatest lack of faith is not believing he can and so living in fear of man instead of fear of God .

I do like how it was recently phrased b some one .. salvation costs us nothng for it is by gracre .. but if you wish to grow in and become a disciple (one obedient & disciplined in the "spiritual" and thus eternal ways of the lord JESUS ..it will cost you everything .the lord jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.… and again he said -And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

there are "some" who (whether purposely or not i can't say ) imply that because it is all by grace that we need do nothing more ..and to be saved we need do nothing more .BUT ..to go on and become .to be transformed we must follow we must obey .
there are those that would have us sit back on our elbows comfortable in the knowledge that we are saved (to appease their own life style & conscience i suppose).. but doing so is the opposite of love for the many perish while we sit at ease .. that is not love .
those who sit at ease once saved by grace are no more then those who through fear bury there talent in the ground .. and as surely as the lord's word is true ,when he comes he will say ...
‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
“‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them."

such is the fate of the one who receives salvation and then sits back afraid to do anything with it and wont move out in faith but remains still ,in fear of man in fear of failure in fear of no pay check in fear of no food in fear of no shelter ..-instead of fearing God .. when we do not move or act or speak because of fear .. we are in truth walking in unbelief .the opposite of faith .
so to day i encourage everyone who calls on the name of the lord JEsus .. move out in faith . its ok he loves you the lord will be with you . start as small as you feel to ..give a little where you cant afford , speak a little where you thought you could not ,take the one single thing that the holy Spirit has been speaking to you about ..just that one thing in your life .. and begin doing it ..
we can never ever exercise to much faith in God .

 

[ToBeLoved]

The big thing is that when I looked up what they said in the bible, it seemed perfectly correct what they were saying. I guess context and meaning play a huge role, but it all seemed to line up. Maybe I'm just too gullible, but I've heard so many various interpretations of God's word and have been taken in by them. Sometimes it's hard to know which interpretation is correct.

Last night, I went through most of the book of Matthew, reading only the red letters (Christ's words). By today's standards (even Christian teaching standards), what He said sounded pretty extreme. It almost sounded like we're here only to pray and fast and talk to others about Christ. We need to own only what we really need and give away everything else to those who have less. We are not to enjoy pleasure because that is selfish (why should we have pleasure while the next guy is in need, which is always going to be the case). Anyway, this is what I took from it. 25 years of being saved and my understanding still isn't solid.

You know what is really a good way to find out the context for scripture? If you look up a verse at the 'Biblehub' online bible site and use the 'Parallel' option (see top of the page, on the left hand side) http://biblehub.com/romans/7-1.htm the scripture will be listed in like 10 versions of the bible from King James to the ESV (English Standard Version). Notice that there is also a few commentaries (bottom of the page on the left) as well as the context of the verse and cross-referenced verses. This is by far one of the best ways I have found to study. Those commentaries are very interesting and help put a lot of scripture in context for me.

I hope you become addicted to BibleHub. It is one of my great loves of the last year!

 

[Aldebaran]

You know what is really a good way to find out the context for scripture? If you look up a verse at the 'Biblehub' online bible site and use the 'Parallel' option (see top of the page, on the left hand side) http://biblehub.com/romans/7-1.htm the scripture will be listed in like 10 versions of the bible from King James to the ESV (English Standard Version). Notice that there is also a few commentaries (bottom of the page on the left) as well as the context of the verse and cross-referenced verses. This is by far one of the best ways I have found to study. Those commentaries are very interesting and help put a lot of scripture in context for me.

I hope you become addicted to BibleHub. It is one of my great loves of the last year!

I'll look into it. I've used it many times to quote scripture on this forum. I go to google and type in a bible phrase and it usually brings me to biblehub.

 

[Aldebaran]

‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
“‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them."

such is the fate of the one who receives salvation and then sits back afraid to do anything with it and wont move out in faith but remains still ,in fear of man in fear of failure in fear of no pay check in fear of no food in fear of no shelter ..-instead of fearing God .. when we do not move or act or speak because of fear .. we are in truth walking in unbelief .the opposite of faith

I guess I don't see going to a job (I don't have one at this time, however), or saving money, or having a gun for defense, or taking care of the house as being out of fear. I see it as being wise with my talents. If I have money, I feel it is wise to spend wisely and not squander it. If I'm willing to buy and learn to use a gun for defense, then it seems wise to defend myself if necessary. Taking care of the house, as well as my health also seems prudent. Can we really expect a house or our body to last if we don't take care of it? Wouldn't it be considered "putting God to the test" to just do whatever we want and not take care of things?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I'll look into it. I've used it many times to quote scripture on this forum. I go to google and type in a bible phrase and it usually brings me to biblehub.

Feel free to view the url for BibleHub that I included in my previous post. I put it in there so you could see a sample page.

 

[Aldebaran]

Feel free to view the url for BibleHub that I included in my previous post. I put it in there so you could see a sample page.

Oh yes! I see those symbols near the top where many explanations can be found for the displayed verse. You're right, this site is a good one! Hopefully I won't become so addicted to it that I forget to come back here.