Faith Alone - Can you explain?

[Chris†opher Paul]

How is "Faith Alone" true, given this Scripture which is a letter written to saved believers?

Romans 2:5-8

"By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God,
who will repay everyone according to his works:
eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works,
but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness."

Please don't tell me that this is about rewards not salvation, because it clearly says that ETERNAL LIFE is given to those saved believers that do good works.

Thanks

 

[Barbara D]

Christopher Paul, ..."Because of your stuborness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourslf in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God.".....I perceive that when grace is rejected, God's wrath results. "And will render to every man according to His deeds:"
Doesn't this mean those who reject grace will receive God's wrath by being judged by our own deeds which is rubbish to God, because our deeds are done in our own name and not His..."to those who by persevering n doing good seek for glory and honor and immoirtality, eternal life;" since our good works cannot save, when we are saved are lives automatically produce good works for His Glory and His Honor, because we are always pointing back to Him? and the semi-colon after this verse continues on in verse 8..."but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation." Our good works are evidence of the changed life. Does this help? Blessings to you.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

But this letter was to Christians. They were already saved. They had already accepted God's grace.

Why would he warn them about good vs bad works, with the result being eternal life or condemnation, if the works were automatic?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Today at 04:39 PM Chris†opher Paul said this in Post #1

How is "Faith Alone" true, given this Scripture which is a letter written to saved believers?

Romans 2:5-8

"By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God,
who will repay everyone according to his works:
eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works,
but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness."

Please don't tell me that this is about rewards not salvation, because it clearly says that ETERNAL LIFE is given to those saved believers that do good works.

Thanks

It is a particular of Paul to write whole chapters (like chapter 7 of Romans) from the point of view of another person, or himself prior to being saved. The chapter you are reading from is the reflective tone of a Jew who is not saved and resisting the gospel. This is not written about saved people.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

hobart-

How do you know this to be the case? Seems strange to me.

 

[AndOne]

Refering to the origonal post - the answer to the question is found in the next chapter - specifically look at verses 21-31.

I think its important to look at verses in an entire context. Romans 2:5-8 only tells part of the story - reiterated in chapter 3:10-11 and the ultimate conclusion/solution is given in verses 21-31.

You should also back up in chapter 2 and read verses 1-4 which add a bit more perspective to the "faith alone" argument.

The crux of Paul's point: EVERYONE selfishly disobeys the truth and obeys wickedness. Hense - the only thing that will save us is FAITH ALONE.

 

[AndOne]

Today at 04:39 PM Chris†opher Paul said this in Post #1

Please don't tell me that this is about rewards not salvation, because it clearly says that ETERNAL LIFE is given to those saved believers that do good works.

Thanks

Actually it does not say this - check it again: "God will give to EACH person according to what he has done." Where in this passage does he say each SAVED person?

 

[sbbqb7n16]

Sure thing

John_6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

Rom_4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

1 Thess_2:13 For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.

John_16:7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
John_16:8 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
John_16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
John_16:10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
John_16:11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

Notice how then the Holy Spirit convicts the world of not believing in Jesus and not "you don't do enough good deeds of your own"

Rom_3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus

 

So from which of these verses are we justified by what we do apart from the grace of God?

 

[Blade]

Well if we read back and forward we find Paul is talking to the Jews that condemn others and Justify them selfs. If you look at John 3:16, Rom 10:9-10 and the man that died with Jesus at the cross. We find how simple it is. For faith without works is dead.

Bless you..

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

So from which of these verses are we justified by what we do apart from the grace of God?

I dont believe in being justified by doing anything APART from the grace of God. That is a heresy that the Church has condemned in the earliest times.

 

[JesusServant]

7th April 2003 at 04:06 PM Chris†opher Paul said this in Post #3

But this letter was to Christians. They were already saved. They had already accepted God's grace.

Why would he warn them about good vs bad works, with the result being eternal life or condemnation, if the works were automatic?

This is an interesting thing for you to say.  I thought you couldn't know who is saved and who isn't, how do you know a book or epistle is written to unsaved or saved people?  I thought that the RCC taught that no one knows, you have to seek out your salvation with fear and trembling and all that stuff?  I'm confused. 

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

JS-

We can know if we are in a state of Grace or not, which means we can know we are saved. Like after confession, your sins are all washed away, or after Baptism, you are a clean slate. For that brief time, you can know you are saved.

In other words, unless you are in a state of mortal sin, you can know you are saved.

Mortal sin is also known as "deadly sin" and is a vert specific thing that doesnt happen by accident. You have to mean it for the sin to be mortal, etc.

Make sense?

 

[JesusServant]

Chris-

What if you get hit by a car and killed on your way to confession? Will you go to hell or be saved?

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Today at 01:54 PM JesusServant said this in Post #13

Chris-

What if you get hit by a car and killed on your way to confession? Will you go to hell or be saved?

If you were going to make a sincere confession, I think God is flexible enough to save you from Hell.

 

[JesusServant]

But how do you know?

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Today at 02:39 PM JesusServant said this in Post #15

But how do you know?

Faith and Trust in my Lord and Savior.

 

[JesusServant]

Exactly. That is why I believe that I will be saved.

 

[paulewog]

what if you weren't even going to confession yet?

Anyways, faith alone - ever read Romans 8:9,10? Or is it 10:9,10. I can't remember.

It's chapter 10.

Romans, 10:8
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Romans, 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans, 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans, 10:11
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans, 10:12
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Romans, 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[Edouard]

Faith:

We are not saved by faith alone.
Faith without works is dead.
We are saved by grace as stated in the first couple of chapters in romans.
It is by faith that we are justified.

What about Matthew 28:

A command from Christ:
Go make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father Son and Holy SPirit.

How in Acts first they believed, then they repented their sin, then they were baptized.

And in John 3 when Christ was talking to Nicodemus, Christ said we need to be baptized by both the water and the Spirit.

These are clear cut commands and examples.
If we love God we will obey Him.
If this is true, we would confess our sins and profess our faith in Him and then be baptized by water and Spirit.

Remeber John the Baptist was baptizing by water when Christ approached him.

Now this is not too say that being baptized saves, but it is part of the process of having faith in our God. Give me one example out of Scripture where a conversion took place by faith alone without works, and baptism!

These are important and serious topics.

Edouard
May God convict your Spirit and bring you closer to Him.
Blessed are those who believe and have not seen.
Charis et Erienne be with you.

 

[paulewog]

The question was what saved though, not the followups.

They're inseperable, really. Faith produces works. No works? Where's the faith? What kind of faith is it if it doesn't chagne anything?

That was James' whole point