Fairytale?

[Inan3]

He didn't imply that they went together, and they didn't have to to make the point.

I see that now by his explanation but it did appear that way.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Or if people trusted in God more we wouldn't have the casualties and maladies brought on by antibiotics and vaccines and other medications. Not trying to malign the help that some medications can do but on the other hand some have done alot of damage also. If doctors and scientists would stop thinking they were gods and find their place under God then there would be even more progress in the world against disease AND demon possession!

So "demon posession" is a big problem where you are?

So long as people hold that attitude maybe we can keep science hamstrung just a little longer! Maybe we can have people wigging out assuming that their schizophrenic brother is really demon possessed!

Sorry but if you want to allow demon possession to be listed in the DSM-IV please stay as far away from psychiatric medicine as you can.

It is this kind of superstition that is not only problematic, but actually corrosive.

Why is it corrosive? Because if you leave a little room for superstition without any basis in reality then you open the doors wide to anyone's superstition.

Science works with natural causes modeled to understand effects. No scientist thinks they are god, but we do work within rational constraints. "Demon Possession" as a diagnostic tool did no real good and it wasn't until we came up with wholly naturalistic explanations could we start the serious work of treating horrible diseases like Schizophrenia.

And it is serious work. It doesn't get done by witch doctors hanging out in the waiting room casting magic spells. It's done with Positron Emission Tomography scanners, pharmaceutical research, combinatorial chemistry, and hours of intense statistical analyses.

If you want to see medical science stymied, allow people to keep in the back of their head that maybe those voices Timmy claims to hear are real.

 

[Inan3]

Yes, because a poster connstantly sits on the edge of his seat between posts. It's inconceivable that between posts someone could, say, have a life.
Shock, horror.

Bad boy, bad boy, what you gonna do?

What you gonna do when they come for you?

From the show "Cops"?

 

[NailsII]

Bad boy, bad boy, what you gonna do?

What you gonna do when they come for you?

From the show "Cops"?

Never seen cops, but it is in Bad Boys I/II.

Love those films.

 

[Inan3]

So "demon posession" is a big problem where you are?

So long as people hold that attitude maybe we can keep science hamstrung just a little longer! Maybe we can have people wigging out assuming that their schizophrenic brother is really demon possessed!

Sorry but if you want to allow demon possession to be listed in the DSM-IV please stay as far away from psychiatric medicine as you can.

It is this kind of superstition that is not only problematic, but actually corrosive.

Why is it corrosive? Because if you leave a little room for superstition without any basis in reality then you open the doors wide to anyone's superstition.

Science works with natural causes modeled to understand effects. No scientist thinks they are god, but we do work within rational constraints. "Demon Possession" as a diagnostic tool did no real good and it wasn't until we came up with wholly naturalistic explanations could we start the serious work of treating horrible diseases like Schizophrenia.

And it is serious work. It doesn't get done by witch doctors hanging out in the waiting room casting magic spells. It's done with Positron Emission Tomography scanners, pharmaceutical research, combinatorial chemistry, and hours of intense statistical analyses.

If you want to see medical science stymied, allow people to keep in the back of their head that maybe those voices Timmy claims to hear are real.

Hi TMT Nice to hear from you again.

 

[Inan3]

But if you carry nothing else away from this discussion, it should be this. There can not be "knowing that is beyond intellect". Because knowledge must be testable if it is to be called knowledge at all. If you can't show it, then you don't know it. If it is "beyond intellect" then it is only a belief - or a delusion.

It is sad to know that you have never known love or passion or joy.

 

[Inan3]

Watch what you wish for. That only serves to prove just about every known religion on the planet.

This is my point. While not all people know God, it is inherent in ALL people that there is a God. It is a part of all creation. Even an atheist is not apart from this. They must work to remove it from their lives and continually seek to fill the void with as many other things as they can...but...only the one true God, our Creator, can truly fill that void. This proves the existence of God.

 

[The Bellman]

This is my point. While not all people know God, it is inherent in ALL people that there is a God.

No, it's not. It's not inherent in me.

Even an atheist is not apart from this. They must work to remove it from their lives and continually seek to fill the void with as many other things as they can.

Sorry, but wrong again. I didn't have to 'work' to remove it from my life, and I don't seek to fill any void.

This proves the existence of God.

It wouldn't prove the existence of god even if it were true (which it's not); it would merely prove that we had such a trait inherent. The origin of that trait would still be moot.

 

[thaumaturgy]

This is my point. While not all people know God, it is inherent in ALL people that there is a God.

Well, yeah, as long as YOU get to unilaterally decree this.

It is a part of all creation. Even an atheist is not apart from this. They must work to remove it from their lives and continually seek to fill the void with as many other things as they can.

Do I get to tell you what YOU believe now? Or would I get accused of "twisting" your words again?

I think you really need to stop telling others what they believe and work on shoring up your own belief systems first.

..but...only the one true God, our Creator, can truly fill that void. This proves the existence of God.

Huh?

That is semi-tautological.

(BTW: when discussing stuff like this with people who've had more than just an intro philosophy class, you might want to work a bit harder on crafting your syllogisms)

 

[Inan3]

The only way we can know something is through our intellect.

So not true! You can know things in your heart! You can know things in your spirit! Intuition knows things! BUT...If you never exercise yourself in these areas you will never become proficient in them. Your knowledge will be limited.

This is a belief, not knowledge.

Sometimes you must believe before you know. Everyone does this throughout their lives.

All beliefs. These are things we don't know, but some believe in them.

There are many things you don't know until you believe them. From simple things to difficult things. You first sit in a chair because you believe it will hold you AFTER you sat in the chair you KNEW it would hold you but at first you had to believe it would. If you didn't believe it would you would never have sat down. I have believed these things you mentioned above and now I KNOW they are true. My belief has turned into knowledge. That is a simple fact of life. Happens every day!

It is an indication that we can make stuff up.

Billions of people making up the same thing is against the odds and you know it. It is an indicator that God exists.

Reality does not conform to our desires.

Oh yes it does every day.

If there were evidence for God you would be right. However, there is no evidence for God so there is no reason to believe other than faith.

My life is evidence for God and millions more like me. Israel is evidence for God and every prophecy fulfilled. Miracles are evidence for God. Etc. Etc.

What color are his eyes.

God is not limited to a human body.

There is no need to feel sorry. Atheists lead very fulfilling lives.[/quote]

Sure they do.

 

[Inan3]

Then "Goddidit" is not an explanation.

God did it is just as much of an explantion as "I" did it or "you" did it. If I or you did something one can say "I" did it or "you" did it. Well, in just the same way when God does something we can explain that "God" did it!

 

[Inan3]

[/color]

Well, yeah, as long as YOU get to unilaterally decree this.


It's an obvious observation.

Do I get to tell you what YOU believe now? Or would I get accused of "twisting" your words again?

It never stopped you before. I welcome your views and opinions and knowledge but I don't think it's necessary to twist what anyone says. Just give me your thoughts and ideas on the topic. Please.

I think you really need to stop telling others what they believe and work on shoring up your own belief systems first.

I think my own belief systems could always improve and your probably right about telling others what they believe. Old habits are hard to break but I want you to know that by God's grace and help I am improving.

Huh?

That is semi-tautological.

Not really!

(BTW: when discussing stuff like this with people who've had more than just an intro philosophy class, you might want to work a bit harder on crafting your syllogisms)

My syllogisms will be God's so I think they will fare well, with whomever. Great word though, so thanks for throwing it in.

 

[Inan3]

No, it's not. It's not inherent in me.


Sorry, but wrong again. I didn't have to 'work' to remove it from my life, and I don't seek to fill any void.


It wouldn't prove the existence of god even if it were true (which it's not); it would merely prove that we had such a trait inherent. The origin of that trait would still be moot.

Me thinks thou doth protest too much!

 

[thaumaturgy]

So not true! You can know things in your heart! You can know things in your spirit! Intuition knows things! BUT...If you never exercise yourself in these areas you will never become proficient in them. Your knowledge will be limited.

You are aware that knowing things in your heart is really just a metaphor, right? I mean, your heart doesn't have neurons.

Just so ya know.

Sometimes you must believe before you know. Everyone does this throughout their lives.

Only those who are serious don't find this to be a virtue.

Billions of people making up the same thing is against the odds and you know it. It is an indicator that God exists.

It's an indicator that Al'lah exists. It is an indicator that Buddha was onto something. It is an indicator that the ancient polytheistic pantheons were onto something.

Again, does it matter to you what you believe or that you simply "believe"?

Because it would seem to be pretty meaningless to just believe for the sake of believing something.

 

[Nathan Poe]

God did it is just as much of an explantion as "I" did it or "you" did it. If I or you did something one can say "I" did it or "you" did it. Well, in just the same way when God does something we can explain that "God" did it!

Except that we can prove "we" did it, and easily explain how "we" did it.

 

[Inan3]

Zeus did that a lot too. He could even take on the form of other animals. And Dionysus, his son lived twice. Mythology is really amazing stuff isn't it? OK, not really, but hey, you seem to enjoy it.

I enjoy the, Lord, yes I do. He's Great!

 

[Nathan Poe]

Me thinks thou doth protest too much!

Paraphrasing Hamlet -- poorly -- is no substitute for actual discourse.

 

[thaumaturgy]

My syllogisms will be God's so I think they will fare well, with whomever. Great word though, so thanks for throwing it in.

Your syllogisms are God's?

You know the Church Fathers and the Scholasticists really did put a lot of work into crafting very intensely philosophical explanations for god and faith. You might want to look into them. Now those folks might have a shot at making syllogisms that are "God's Syllogisms".

 

[Inan3]

[/color]

You are aware that knowing things in your heart is really just a metaphor, right? I mean, your heart doesn't have neurons.

Just so ya know..

Yes, I did know that. I assumed you knew I knew that.

Only those who are serious don't find this to be a virtue.

Being serious all the time is not necessarily a virtue either.

It's an indicator that Al'lah exists. It is an indicator that Buddha was onto something. It is an indicator that the ancient polytheistic pantheons were onto something.

Again, does it matter to you what you believe or that you simply "believe"?

Again? The answer to that is definitely!

Because it would seem to be pretty meaningless to just believe for the sake of believing something

Praise God! We agree on something!

 

[Aron-Ra]

But if you carry nothing else away from this discussion, it should be this. There can not be "knowing that is beyond intellect". Because knowledge must be testable if it is to be called knowledge at all. If you can't show it, then you don't know it. If it is "beyond intellect" then it is only a belief - or a delusion.

It is sad to know that you have never known love or passion or joy.

Lady who do you think you're kidding? I've had more than my share of each, thank you.

Edit: Not only is that assumption as wrong as it could get, its not even related to anything previously said. Talk about changing the subject!