Fairytale?

[thaumaturgy]

GOD doesn't care about denominations.

But he does stand by so quietly while various denominations mercilessly torment each other.

Denominations exist for our comfort

Try telling that to the Puritans. Try telling it to the Cathars. Protestant v Catholics? Comfort? Yeah, denominations do indeed bring comfort. To their own.

All witches do is try to gain knowledge to make themselves feel powerful and that is what many scientists seem to do also------make themselves feel good about themselves.

EEK! A WITCH! Burn them! Burn them all! And burn the scientists too! They are "witch-like"!

What if Wiccan_Child casts a magical spell and bewitches you, Nipper? Don't you worry about that?

Wiccan_Child has witchly witchy powers! If you have any cattle I recommend you get them blessed post haste because Wiccan_Child might, through the magic of the internet, cast an e-spell and they will fall ill! You will be left without milk for the cold winter that is starting!

Oh Li'l Nipper, if there was anything I could do to forestall this disaster I would, but I've run out of kindling!

 

[MoonLancer]

GOD doesn't care about denominations. Denominations exist for our comfort and not HIS. GOD has made it possible for humans to have a personal relationship with HIM. That and only that is what GOD wants. All witches do is try to gain knowledge to make themselves feel powerful and that is what many scientists seem to do also------make themselves feel good about themselves.

keep telling yourself that. the whole personal relationship thing didn't come about until Luther and the rise of protestants. your religion is broken and fractured, torn asunder by discontent and discontent.

 

[MoonLancer]

All witches do is try to gain knowledge to make themselves feel powerful and that is what many scientists seem to do also------make themselves feel good about themselves.

try looking in the mirror all knowing man with is book of infinite truth, that shale be saved while others burn.

if the idea of god didn't make you feel what you just described, you would abandon it in a second i would guess. No one believes in evolution because its comforting or makes one feel good about themselves.

enjoy your religious lobotomy.

 

[LittleNipper]

keep telling yourself that. the whole personal relationship thing didn't come about until Luther and the rise of protestants. your religion is broken and fractured, torn asunder by discontent and discontent.

GOD was working through the HOLY SPIRIT to return HIS CHURCH to its roots. The church had become a manipulative governmental authority. "Christians," came to believe they were "christian" because of church rules that they tried to follow. They no longer looked to GOD, but to ROME for inspiration. They had nearly lost their first love when the Reformation began to set the stage for revival.

 

[Nathan Poe]

If you could not tell that I was being sardonic with my answers then it is no wonder you cannot see the truth about evolution and evolutionist.

No, it just means you're proving Poe's Law -- as most Creationists do.

But in reality you cannot see the truth because you are blinded to it. You have rejected truth and therefore you will walk in darkness and not know where you are going unless you turn to the Lord. There is no fear in Love perfect Love (God) casts out all fear. The only fear I have is for you guys.

Because we admit we can't see the Emperor's New Clothes. We've heard this all before -- much better, I might add.

 

[Nathan Poe]

GOD was working through the HOLY SPIRIT to return HIS CHURCH to its roots.

And failing, it should be noted.

The church had become a manipulative governmental authority.

Now, in America, it's a manipulative social authority, looking to overturn the establishment clause to once again become a manipulative government authority.

Not much of an improvement, IMHO.

"Christians," came to believe they were "christian" because of church rules that they tried to follow. They no longer looked to GOD, but to ROME for inspiration. They had nearly lost their first love when the Reformation began to set the stage for revival.

And now they look to hot-button issues such as Creationism, Abortion, posting the 10 Commandments in schools, and the War in Iraq.

No improvement at all, IMHO.

 

[Split Rock]

EEK! A WITCH! Burn them! Burn them all! And burn the scientists too! They are "witch-like"!

What if Wiccan_Child casts a magical spell and bewitches you, Nipper? Don't you worry about that?

Wiccan_Child has witchly witchy powers! If you have any cattle I recommend you get them blessed post haste because Wiccan_Child might, through the magic of the internet, cast an e-spell and they will fall ill! You will be left without milk for the cold winter that is starting!

Oh Li'l Nipper, if there was anything I could do to forestall this disaster I would, but I've run out of kindling!

Macbeth

ACT 1 SCENE III. A heath near Forres.

Thunder. Enter the three Witches
First Witch
Where hast thou been, sister?

Second Witch
Killing swine.

Third Witch
Sister, where thou?

First Witch
A sailor's wife had chestnuts in her lap,
And munch'd, and munch'd, and munch'd:--
'Give me,' quoth I:
'Aroint thee, witch!' the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]-fed ronyon cries.
Her husband's to Aleppo gone, master o' the Tiger:
But in a sieve I'll thither sail,
And, like a rat without a tail,
I'll do, I'll do, and I'll do.

Second Witch
I'll give thee a wind.

First Witch
Thou'rt kind.

Third Witch
And I another.

First Witch
I myself have all the other,
And the very ports they blow,
All the quarters that they know
I' the shipman's card.
I will drain him dry as hay:
Sleep shall neither night nor day
Hang upon his pent-house lid;
He shall live a man forbid:
Weary se'nnights nine times nine
Shall he dwindle, peak and pine:
Though his bark cannot be lost,
Yet it shall be tempest-tost.
Look what I have.

Second Witch
Show me, show me.

First Witch
Here I have a pilot's thumb,
Wreck'd as homeward he did come.

 

[atomweaver]

GOD was working through the HOLY SPIRIT to return HIS CHURCH to its roots. The church had become a manipulative governmental authority. "Christians," came to believe they were "christian" because of church rules that they tried to follow. They no longer looked to GOD, but to ROME for inspiration. They had nearly lost their first love when the Reformation began to set the stage for revival.

...Then why does creationism attempt to re-submit itself to a governmental authority, by attempting to permit a government institution (public schools) have sway over its tenets? I think maybe Creationists aren't thinking this angle out much past "Step One - get Chrisitan Creationism into Public Schools".
Its ironic that the Evil Atheist Conspiracy has to fight so hard, just to keep your own dogma intact, because for certain if our government was responsible for teaching Creationism, you wouldn't recognize it as such inside of ten years...

 

[LittleNipper]

And failing, it should be noted.



Now, in America, it's a manipulative social authority, looking to overturn the establishment clause to once again become a manipulative government authority.

Not much of an improvement, IMHO.



And now they look to hot-button issues such as Creationism, Abortion, posting the 10 Commandments in schools, and the War in Iraq.

No improvement at all, IMHO.

GOD never fails, you just have no clue of what HE is doing, because you are an outsider. However, I can see that GOD is separating the wheat from the tares, HIS sheep from the goats. HE is working this HIS perfect way and at HIS perfect timing. There will be no excuses of any validity-----only many very sorry people.

 

[Aron-Ra]

GOD never fails,

What was the reason for the flood again?

you just have no clue of what HE is doing, because you are an outsider. However, I can see that GOD is separating the wheat from the tares, HIS sheep from the goats. HE is working this HIS perfect way and at HIS perfect timing. There will be no excuses of any validity-----only many very sorry people.

Honestly, the only way this could scare me is if you were screaming this while standing before me in person -and hitting me in the head with the barrel of a gun. Short of that, it makes no impression at all.

 

[LittleNipper]

...Then why does creationism attempt to re-submit itself to a governmental authority, by attempting to permit a government institution (public schools) have sway over its tenets? I think maybe Creationists aren't thinking this angle out much past "Step One - get Chrisitan Creationism into Public Schools".
Its ironic that the Evil Atheist Conspiracy has to fight so hard, just to keep your own dogma intact, because for certain if our government was responsible for teaching Creationism, you wouldn't recognize it as such inside of ten years...

I feel that Creationists ideally want the government out of education and parents back in it. However, under the present conditions, they want some rebuttal against seemingly unchallenged evolutionary thinking.... It is this evolutionary thinking that seems to be undermining any logical reason among students for becoming educated at all. They clearly do not have to think for themselves at this time. They are presented with things as pointless and as matter of fact. Each generation is moving further and further away from personal resonsibility. We are reaching the point where any topic of contention will be excluded or presented as onesided for the sake of one world governmental control , thinking, and manipulation of the masses.

 

[Phred]

I feel that Creationists ideally want the government out of education and parents back in it.

Government is only there because parents like yourself would teach lies and fairy tales as fact. Your faith is nice and all... when it's restricted to being faith. But when you start pretending that believing something really hard makes it true well... that's not right. In fact, that's a lie.

However, under the present conditions,

You know, where we insist upon teaching facts as facts and belief as belief.

they want some rebuttal against seemingly unchallenged evolutionary thinking.... It is this evolutionary thinking that seems to be undermining any logical reason among students for becoming educated at all.

With religious nonsense instead of facts. Magic instead of observations and prayer instead of experiments. Blech.

They clearly do not have to think for themselves at this time.

Unlike in church where they are encouraged to think for themselves. Right?

They are presented with things as pointless and as matter of fact. Each generation is moving further and further away from personal resonsibility.

Science is not a philosophy and you've been told this numerous times. If people are moving away from person responsibility look to yourself. You're the ones in the business of pretending to know all about that kinda stuff. And you've been failing miserably for the last 2,000 years.

We are reaching the point where any topic of contention will be excluded or presented as onesided for the sake of one world governmental control , thinking, and manipulation of the masses.

Oh nonsense. You just want to bully your way into a place where you can't get. Tough. If you want to win a footrace you have to train to be the fastest. If you want to get on an NFL team you have train to be one of the best at your position. And if you want to have your information taught in a science class you have to DO THE WORK. You have to make the observations, write the paper, submit it for review and then and only then will that information be taught in a science class. Just because you think your Holy Scripture teaches a different way the earth was formed doesn't give you carte blanche to force your views into a science class. First you have to DO THE WORK.

The fact that with all that money you've opened universities, high schools, published your own text books... all to force your ideas onto kids instead of just DOING THE WORK says to me you can't do the work. Your ideas will never stand up to scientific scrutiny. You've already lost. So you resort to cheating.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

GOD doesn't care about denominations. Denominations exist for our comfort and not HIS. GOD has made it possible for humans to have a personal relationship with HIM. That and only that is what GOD wants.

The exact method whereby one can have a personal relationship with God is disputed; the different systems are the different denominations. For the most part, each system views every other system to be false.
Within Christianity, at least.

All witches do is try to gain knowledge to make themselves feel powerful

Witchcraft is a system of magick, not unlike Christian prayer. Don't bash what you don't understand, lest I feel forced to cast a witchy witchy e-spell on you (merci, thaumaturgy)

and that is what many scientists seem to do also------make themselves feel good about themselves.

Scientists desire nothing more than knowledge about how and why the world is as it is. They do it out of love for science, and a love of reliable knowledge.
Granted, there are charlatans in every profession, but these are easy enough to root out.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I feel that Creationists ideally want the government out of education and parents back in it.

I feel that everything Creationists organizations have done directly contradicts this.

However, under the present conditions, they want some rebuttal against seemingly unchallenged evolutionary thinking....

And failing to get that from the scientific community, they go to the courts -- and get their posteriors handed to them on a fairly regular basis.

It is this evolutionary thinking that seems to be undermining any logical reason among students for becoming educated at all. They clearly do not have to think for themselves at this time. They are presented with things as pointless and as matter of fact.

And how, precisely, would Creationism reverse this trend?

Each generation is moving further and further away from personal resonsibility. We are reaching the point where any topic of contention will be excluded or presented as onesided for the sake of one world governmental control , thinking, and manipulation of the masses.

And evolution is to blame for this? How so?

 

[MoonLancer]

GOD was working through the HOLY SPIRIT to return HIS CHURCH to its roots. The church had become a manipulative governmental authority. "Christians," came to believe they were "christian" because of church rules that they tried to follow. They no longer looked to GOD, but to ROME for inspiration. They had nearly lost their first love when the Reformation began to set the stage for revival.

really? were does it say god did this? who did he tell?

A subset of culture rebelled because they were being oppressed. This would happen with or without god. One could even say this oppression is happening anew with the religious trying to pass their doctrains as law.

As I said before, the personal god mentality was not in inscribed in the bible, but by marten Luther , a man. He may have been right in decentralizing the church, but god would have done it himself if he had a problem with the church. My point is your following your own beliefs, and these beliefs are very different then those that originally were formed from the bible.

The reason their are so many different denominations is because their is no one truth to the bible. People impress their own truths and claim its a universal truth using the bible as a conduit of authority.

 

[Aron-Ra]

If you could not tell that I was being sardonic with my answers then it is no wonder you cannot see the truth about evolution and evolutionist. But in reality you cannot see the truth because you are blinded to it. You have rejected truth and therefore you will walk in darkness and not know where you are going unless you turn to the Lord. There is no fear in Love perfect Love (God) casts out all fear. The only fear I have is for you guys.

If you have no fear, then why are you running away? If I'm the one "rejecting truth", then why am I the one making the challenge to prove my point to your satisfaction, while you refuse to address my points or queries -just as I predicted you wouldn't?

 

[atomweaver]

I feel that Creationists ideally want the government out of education and parents back in it.

The option for this has existed for as long as the public education system, and its called home-schooling.

However, under the present conditions, they want some rebuttal against seemingly unchallenged evolutionary thinking....

If there is to be a challenge to evolutionary thinking, it should not occur in the secondary school system. Fight your creationist fight, but fight it honestly, not using children as a battleground.

It is this evolutionary thinking that seems to be undermining any logical reason among students for becoming educated at all.

I disagree here, and since issues with quality of education pre-dates any high school biology course (and introduction of the idea of evolution) by many years, it would seem like you're trying to lay blame for all educational shortcomings at the feet of one theory in one subject taught in 10th Grade. Tell me why a theory taught in 10th Grade would affect 4th Grade reading skills at all? Continue to treat the issue of education so, and it will never get fixed.

As you said earlier, the real problems with education have more due to with the lack of parental invovlement in the education process (and more generally, their children's upbringing), itself. [IMO, this in turn is a result of the modern US cost of living almost demanding that both parents work full-time, just to make ends meet, but that is a side-issue, here.] Its a vastly more complex issue than you make it out, above.

They clearly do not have to think for themselves at this time. They are presented with things as pointless and as matter of fact. Each generation is moving further and further away from personal resonsibility.

Evidence?

We are reaching the point where any topic of contention will be excluded or presented as onesided for the sake of one world governmental control , thinking, and manipulation of the masses.

...and your solution to that is to substitute your own religious minority's one-sided thinking, in place of that offered by the current system? No. Your solution holds no more value than the current state of things. Indeed, it holds less, since I as a citizen have no electoral say in the dogma of the Church. It is entirely dictated by Church leaders, and no others. If a School Board gets it wrong, they can be kicked out in the next election. When was the last time you elected your pastor?

Even with biology, if I wanted to be a voice for change, I need only back it up with hard work, research, and verifiable evidence. If my evidence is stong, my methods are rigorous, and my arguments are clear, then change becomes inevitable. Shame that the Creationist movement is more interested in leveraging the political system to make its end-run around honest research. They could instead drop the lawyer game, do some hard work, and enjoy the results (swords for plowshares...).

 

[FoeHammer]

I am being consistent... that is why I used the term reasonable doubt rather than absolutely true.

How does without reasonable doubt differ from absolutely true?

You forgot natural selection. And most mutations are indeed due to a copying mistake. Your dismissal is hardly based on any "pathetic" attempts to explain this to you.

It is and this is yet another example. You throw in natural selection as an answer all.
How did it happen? Naturalselectiondidit.

Yet another example of your arrogance. I thought only God could not be fooled?

Why would you think that?

Whatever that means!

It's plain enough.

No, I cannot convince you because of your blind faith in Creationist dogma.

As ever you believe what suits you.

The best scientific explanation is not based on "opinion," it is based on the consensus of the scientific community.

Consensus - majority of opinion.
Tip: Rethink.

OK.

Yippee! An agreement.

So, in your vocabulary there is either omniscience (which non of us have) or "faith?"

Yes.

Yet, you continue to claim you are using the English language? No wonder we cannot understand each other!

OK. But how do we determine this?

At what level?

Well, yes, it is the arrogance of a creationist, but it seems to be a characteristic among creationists in general. Though, I will admit there certainly are exceptions. Yes, you could be both arrogant and right, but in this case you are just arrogant.

Subjective opinion noted.

Nice comeback... and so very Christian of you!

Would you please explain what you mean by that?

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Then it is you who is confused.

FoeHammer.

 

[FoeHammer]

Sure. This should be good.

One is impossible the other isn't necessarily.

Give me an example of one thing that is impossible, and explain the criteria required to determine that.

Something from nothing, common sense.

FoeHammer.

 

[FoeHammer]

.....

So indeed God may be "thus and so", but I have to ask how you know this. How anyone knows this?

I knew within myself that God existed before ever I read this.

Romans 1:19,20
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

It’s in the BIOS.

FoeHammer.