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Fairytale?

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Inan3

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Okay, but doesn't the Bible say that only Jesus can judge such a thing? Didn't he say that people will come to him thinking that he will reognize him as one of his own and he will say that he doesn't know them?

You seem to be stealing God's thunder there.


Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Luk 6:46 ¶ And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


Do your children steal your thunder by being like you and doing as you have taught them? On the contrary you are impressed with them and proud of them when they do. So is God the Father.
 
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Inan3

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Then it would be quite foolish to spend your short life deceiving yourself.

Yes, I think so but my life is eternal not short so who we talking about here?


You know evolution is a scientific theory not an outlook on life. There are aspects of nature that much harder to accept if you are unfortunate enough to run afoul of them. For example, the physics and chemistry of running into a tanker truck at 70 mph.

Evolution is an outlook on life. It says life derived from nothing. Please don't tell me that that is abiogenesis for evolution looks for the common ancester and therefore it must answer where that common ancester comes from.

Some aspects of creation like reproduction are quite pleasant. Thank You, Lord, for that.:bow: AND thank You, Lord, also, that You forewarn us of impending dangers such as running into tanker trucks :bow: and/or heal us when we do.:bow: [/QUOTE]
 
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Nathan Poe

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The same way you can tell in person by what they are saying. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good tree brings forth good fruit and an evil tree brings forth evil fruit. What be believe comes out our mouth. You listen to a person and you can locate them. It's not something that can be hidden eventually it will come out. Faith and our words go hand in hand.

But I haven't heard anything in your words that shows any sort of sincere Christian spirituality. What am I to make of that?
 
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Lilandra

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Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Luk 6:46 ¶ And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


Do your children steal your thunder by being like you and doing as you have taught them? On the contrary you are impressed with them and proud of them when they do. So is God the Father.
Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Luk 6:46 ¶ And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Do your children steal your thunder by being like you and doing as you have taught them? On the contrary you are impressed with them and proud of them when they do. So is God the Father.
So, you think God taught you to judge who is/was a Christian?
Matthew 7
Judging Others
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

My point is even according to Christian theology, you are not the judge of other people's hearts. A lot of the nonbelievers here started out as believers, Aron included.
How could you possibly see that blinded to everything except for what you would rather believe?
 
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Lilandra

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Yes, I think so but my life is eternal not short so who we talking about here?
Ah, assuming that life may be eternal, you could still be spending that eternity in Hell anyways for not following the words of Mohammed, the prophet of Allah.

Evolution is an outlook on life. It says life derived from nothing. Please don't tell me that that is abiogenesis for evolution looks for the common ancester and therefore it must answer where that common ancester comes from.
That made no sense to me.

Some aspects of creation like reproduction are quite pleasant. Thank You, Lord, for that.:bow: AND thank You, Lord, also, that You forewarn us of impending dangers such as running into tanker trucks :bow: and/or heal us when we do.:bow:
OK, you say that God made sex pleasant? Do you also give him the glory for praying mantis reproduction? The female often engages in sexual cannibalism during reproduction. Science is studying this as to whether it has any evolutionary explanation.

But your religious explanation of God giving us sex because he loves us, doesn't explain all aspects of reproduction.
800px-Female_mantis_devouring_male_So_Calif.jpg
 
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Inan3

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So, you think God taught you to judge who is/was a Christian?

[/SIZE]My point is even according to Christian theology, you are not the judge of other people's hearts. A lot of the nonbelievers here started out as believers, Aron included.
How could you possibly see that blinded to everything except for what you would rather believe?

But your point is not complete in truth. While we do not judge in one way we do in another.

Luk 12:57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

Jhn 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

How could you judge or determine if one was false prophet or ravening wolf ? The Lord teaches us. It is by a man's fruit. You can look at fruit produced in a person's life and make judgements. Can I say they are going to hell no but I can say that if one does not accept Jesus Christ as Saviour they will go to Hell because it is not a judgement of the man but it is the judgement of what the Word says. It would be an unwise thing for anyone to never make judgements according to the Word. That is what the Word is intended to do give us wisdom to make righteous judgements.

Where is it that you believed I judged Aron?

I will have to respond tomorrow for I am going to bed after this post.
 
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Aron-Ra

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That's just it. I do understand what it is saying and if you will be honest you will also, see that if anything is irrational that is irrational. I understand God and His word very well. I know it is real. It's actually more rational to believe in God than not to.
I don't know what happened to you when you were 19 but you but you never were born again. You never really knew the Lord.
Well of course I didn't really know "the lord". I only believed I did, just like you do; Just like George Harrison so certainly believed he knew Krishna. He spoke very much as you do, you know.

"If there's a God, I want to see Him. It's pointless to believe in something without proof, and Krishna Consciousness and meditation are methods where you can actually obtain GOD preception. You can actually see God, and Hear Him, play with Him. It might sound crazy, but He is actually there, actually with you."

Now how could you argue with that? Are you now going to tell me that he didn't really know his god either?

I have read many testimonies from ancient times and from the modern day of people's "personal knowledge" and spiritual communion with Buddha, Muhammad, Ahura-Mazda, Guru Nanak, and the spirits of dead friends, lovers, and relatives. All of them claim confident knowledge of absolute truth, yet all of them cannot be correct. Would you tell me they're all deceived and only you know the real way?

Belief in God = belief in magic. You literally believe you can make dreams become matter if you could just make yourself believe it enough. You rave with disturbing lunacy wild ranting nonsense which cannot be justified. I find it disorienting as any sensible person would when surrounded by sycophants suffering from Orwellian dementia; "rationalism is irrational", "faith is reason", "intelligence is stupid", "gullability is wisdom", and "assuming your own subjective emotional conclusions for no reason counts as evidence".

Its all madness. Sanity is often defined as being rational, to be able to reason logically and to be reasoned with. But faith is irrational, illogical, unreasonable, and insane by definition.
To believe that things mutate or become deformed and then become superior is illogical.
Unless we can prove that it happens, and we can prove that the "deformity" happens to work better.
it's illogical to believe a lie.
And yet you do. And you know you do too; or else you would have answered my question in post # 256.

We both know why you can't. Its because we both know that the creationism movement is based entirely on falsehoods and deliberately dishonest propaganda. None of you cares for the truth if it is not what you wish it to be. That's why there has never been a single credible proponent of evangelical creationism anywhere ever. Because (with only one notable exception) everyone who has ever published anti-evolutionary rhetoric to any medium did so only according to a prior religious agenda rather than any amount of scientific comprehension. They’ve all revealed inexcusable ignorance in the very fields where they claim expertise, and their arguments are all dependant on erroneous assumptions, prejudicial bias, logical fallacies, ridiculous parody, misdefined terms, misquoted authorities, distorted data, fraudulent figures, or out-and-out lies. Nor has there ever been a single argument in favor of creationism which was verifiably accurate. Every claim creationists ever make in this debate falls into one of two categories; those things which can never be either vindicated or disproved, and those things which have already been disproved.

I really can't continue trying to reason with someone who believes the voices in her head belong to demons and shadow spirits, and who can only vainly attempt to project her own faults onto those who have already rid ourselves of them, and will not bare them again.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Are we talking to each other?

{snip}

Yes. But this is a forum for discussing Creationism not apologetics. There are numerous evolution advocates who are TEs and perfectly capible of representing the case for a Creator who do a much better job doing so than Creationists who offer up a bait and switch discussion then turn it into nothing but apologetics.

Except for the periodic God-Hater who doesn't realize he needs to post in GA like consol the vast majority of atheist and agnostic evolution advocates in this subforum ignore apologetical issues until they are raised by Creationists who, having run out of scientific arguments turn to preaching and evangelism.
 
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Inan3

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Ah, assuming that life may be eternal, you could still be spending that eternity in Hell anyways for not following the words of Mohammed, the prophet of Allah.

Yes, I should end up in Hell like all mankind BUT, BUT, BUT oh Heavenly BUT....Jesus Die for me so that I don't have to!:clap: Mohammed died for no one. Those that follow him follow him where he ends up.

OK, you say that God made sex pleasant? Do you also give him the glory for praying mantis reproduction? The female often engages in sexual cannibalism during reproduction. Science is studying this as to whether it has any evolutionary explanation.

I knew that. I give God glory for all of creation.

But your religious explanation of God giving us sex because he loves us, doesn't explain all aspects of reproduction.

First, I made no such religious claim. So don't put words in my mouth. I simply changed the wording slightly of what you had already written.

Secondly, it was never my intention to cover or explain all aspects of reproduction.:confused:
 
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Lilandra

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Yes, I should end up in Hell like all mankind BUT, BUT, BUT oh Heavenly BUT....Jesus Die for me so that I don't have to!:clap: Mohammed died for no one. Those that follow him follow him where he ends up.
How compassionate of you. I dismissed questions like why people are condemned to Hell for not being a Christian when I was a Christian. I accepted Jesus when I was 11. I dismissed a lot of things that I didn't understand about Christianity until about 2 years ago. the atrocities commited in the name of God in the Bible, I just figured that I didn't understand.

I also dismissed Christians like you with their callous disregard, believing people deserved eternal torment for not believing the same as you. I dismissed Christians, who were using Christianity to serve themselves. I've met so many of this type.

Like the nuns, I lived with for a time as a child. I was constantly preached at to be obedient. Me and my siblings were whipped or forced to kneel and pray with our hands outstretched with books in them for disobedience. We did all the housework for them w/o daring to complain.

Still, I wanted to believe in the compassionate Jesus of the Bible. That people were misrepresenting him. In fairness, I have met people who follow Jesus's example and are super, great people.

However, it wasn't the Bible thumpers that caused me to lose faith. It was that there was no way to tell the difference in whether I actually knew God or was pretending to know. Also, you have coincidentally managed to show a number of logical inconsistences in this thread alone of the type that I could no longer deny.

Like this...
I knew that. I give God glory for all of creation.
So it pleased God to have the praying mantis female eat her mate?

You know that explains nothing about their behavior.
First, I made no such religious claim. So don't put words in my mouth. I simply changed the wording slightly of what you had already written.
Yes you did.
Secondly, it was never my intention to cover or explain all aspects of reproduction.:confused:
I am not accusing you of covering them up. I am saying that you choose to ignore aspects of reproduction that don't confirm for you that it is a gift from God.
 
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Split Rock

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What does it take for you to be certain? Unless you can demonstrate, via empirical scientific evidence, that evolution is, without doubt, the process by which we originated, which I know you can't, then the acceptance of it as such is a matter of faith. For you to claim otherwise would be disingenuous.
Evolution is without a reasonable doubt. You do not understand the "empirical scientific evidence" and when provided with an explanation of it, you reject it out of hand because it disagrees with your Faith. Who are you trying to fool here? Us.. or yourself??

What do you mean by ''absolute truth''?
Are we going to play word-games with "absolute truth" like you have been doing with "faith?" Absolute Truth is something known for complete certainty without even a small possibility of being wrong. It is unattainable by fallible humans.



So, you can't know that evolution is the truth but you believe it anyway? What's that if it's not faith?
You continue to pretend not to understand English. If it is held tentatively it is not based on faith. If it is the best explanation we have and has so far never been falsified (yet is potenially falsifiable), it is not based on faith. I asked you before if I claim I believe something and will never be convinced I am wrong, regardless of the evidence I find, is that Faith? What is the opposite of such a position?


But the truth doesn't.
Now I will ask you to define "truth" in this context.


Wrong! I do know the truth..... convincing everyone else that I do is the problem.:D
Here is the arrogance of Creationism. I guess you must be God. I thought The KJV Bible was your God? Are you commiting Heresy now?? :p


Fallible in some things, yes, fallible in all things, not necessarily.
More arrogance and hubris! I bow to your Divine omnipotence! :bow:


I believe, have faith (trust), know (within myself) that God is The Truth and I believe, trust (have faith) and know (within myself) that The Bible is the revealed word of God and through it (and other means) He guides me, so yes I am guided by The Truth and rejecting anything contrary to that Truth becomes obligatory.
Well, at least you admit you have Faith. But you cannot both "believe" and "know" something. It is either one or the other. Of course, you twist the meaning of these words around so much that you have probably confused yourself at this point.
 
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Pete Harcoff

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Are we talking to each other?

The very nature of Creationism is that there is a Creator. That there is a Creator is that there is God. That there is God is that there is the Word of God. That there is the Word of God is that there is Christ. That there is Christ is that there is Christianity. That there is Christianity is that there is faith. That there is faith is that there is a Creator, etc.

To not include these would be to say that biology and palentolgy and geology and any other science could not be included.
Creationist on this forum typically refers to those who reject various parts of mainstream science in favor of a more literal interpretation of the Bible (i.e. Young Earth creationists, old Earth creationists, gap creationists, etc).
 
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FoeHammer

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FoeHammer

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Once again we have 1 Christian taking on 6-7 evolutionists.

Go, FoeHammer!

With God you out number them all!
Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Amen to that.

FoeHammer.
 
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FoeHammer

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I'm going to frank in admitting that the general examples of "evolution in action" aren't terribly spectacular. Certainly there are evolutionary mechanisms at work, but relative to the evolutionary history of the species on Earth, snapshots of evolution occuring today aren't so dramatic.

The picture gets much clearer once you dive into genetics/genomics. Unfortunately, there's a much larger learning curve to climb before one can really understand and appreciate what its all about. And that's one of the hurdles that makes it all the easier to dismiss it. Without understanding, how can one accept it?
The Emperor's New Clothes.

FoeHammer.
 
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