Fairytale?

[Aron-Ra]

"Good" meaning something more than the ravings of mad men, charlatans and shysters; something that actually makes sense, is verifiably accurate, and posatively indicative of such a thing.

Well that rules evolution out then.

What part of evolution do you think is not logically defensible, posatively indicative of evolution, or verifiably accurate?

I've also already shown from every authorative source what faith is, proving that it is not simply synonemous with trust, because faith is the condition of either trust, confidence, or belief that it be unreasonably stoic, and that it be assumed and maintained regardless of evidence.

Expand on it all you like but the bottom line is that faith = trust. You’re the only person I’ve come across that has a problem with this.

Because I've already proven that you're wrong.

what could I possibly do to further minimize or remove faith from my perspective more than I already have?

Become omniscient.

Thank you for repeating your admission, the one you challenged me to prove by finding an earlier citation. Fortunately faith is not defined the way you think it is, but if it was, it would be meaningless since everything including stamp collecting would count as faith in your world.

 

[Inan3]

Their beliefs may change but the truth doesn't.

FoeHammer.

Excellent point, FoeHammer

 

[FoeHammer]

Hardly. We are as certain of evolution as we can be based on the evidence. Calling that "faith" is disingenuous.

What does it take for you to be certain? Unless you can demonstrate, via empirical scientific evidence, that evolution is, without doubt, the process by which we originated, which I know you can't, then the acceptance of it as such is a matter of faith. For you to claim otherwise would be disingenuous.

Since none of us knows "absolute" truth, then this point is irrelevant.

What do you mean by ''absolute truth''?

You continue to talk in circles. First, what is obvious to me is not obvious to you and visa versa.

I know, this is the basis of my question above.

Second, your last sentence is another misuse of the word "faith." Being absolutely certain of something requires faith, not the other way around!

Not if it can be demonstrated. I look forward to your reply to the above.

But people can only have belief in what is the Truth, since they cannot know the Truth.

So, you can't know that evolution is the truth but you believe it anyway? What's that if it's not faith?

Therefore, if their beliefs change, then their perception of the Truth changes.

But the truth doesn't.
It's not me talking in circles.

The problem with people like you, FoeHammer, is that you think you know the Truth

Wrong! I do know the truth..... convincing everyone else that I do is the problem.

but you cannot, since you are a fallible human.

Fallible in some things, yes, fallible in all things, not necessarily.

Yet you use your perception of the truth as a guide to rejecting whatever conflicts with that perception. Then you claim to not be guided by "faith," but by "The Truth."

I believe, have faith (trust), know (within myself) that God is The Truth and I believe, trust (have faith) and know (within myself) that The Bible is the revealed word of God and through it (and other means) He guides me, so yes I am guided by The Truth and rejecting anything contrary to that Truth becomes obligatory.

FoeHammer.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

What does it take for you to be certain? Unless you can demonstrate, via empirical scientific evidence, that evolution is, without doubt, the process by which we originated, which I know you can't, then the acceptance of it as such is a matter of faith. For you to claim otherwise would be disingenuous.

On the contrary, such a demonstration is trivial:

• 1 Evidence from paleontology
  • 1.1 Fossil records
    • 1.1.1 Extent of the Fossil Record
  • 1.2 Evolution of the horse
  • 1.3 Limitations
• 2 Evidence from comparative anatomy
  • 2.1 Homologous structures and divergent (adaptive) evolution
    • 2.1.1 Pentadactyl limb
    • 2.1.2 Insect mouthparts
    • 2.1.3 Other Arthropod Appendages
  • 2.2 Analogous structures and convergent evolution
  • 2.3 Vestigial structures
• 3 Evidence from geographical distribution
  • 3.1 Continental distribution
  • 3.2 Explanation
  • 3.3 Evidence for migration and isolation
  • 3.4 Continental drift
  • 3.5 Oceanic island distribution
• 4 Evidence from comparative physiology and biochemistry
  • 4.1 Universal biochemical organisation
  • 4.2 Molecular variance patterns
  • 4.3 Out of Africa hypothesis of human evolution
  • 4.4 External link
• 5 Evidence from antibiotic and pesticide resistance
• 6 Evidence from studies of complex iteration
• 7 Evidence from speciation
  • 7.1 Hawthorn fly

From here.

Even a brief review of this evidence is enough to compel one to believe in Common Descent.

Unless, of course, you can refute it. To which I am all ears.

 

[Inan3]

"Good" meaning something more than the ravings of mad men, charlatans and shysters; something that actually makes sense, is verifiably accurate, and posatively indicative of such a thing. Because it didn't give me any comfort to believe in a god. In fact, when I believed, it was always uncomfortable and confusing trying to figure out how the supernatural realm was integrated with the real one. Once I hit on the explanation that the "supernatural" wasn't really there, then everything finally made sense. So a "good reason" for God has to make sense or it can't be compelling.

You know the devils also believe in God. They, unlike you, even know there is a God BUT they do not understand the things of God even as you do not understand the things of Goad as your speech reveals. One needs to be born again to understand the things of God, which is obvious never happened to you. REASON #1 TO UNDERSTAND THE THINGS OF GOD

Thus far, you have only been offensive, and ineffective in all your arguments because they're all entirely emotional, and you've been unable to demonstrate any academic accuracy or accountability on anything. Each of your attempted points have been disproved, and all you have done was to try and fail to project your own faults and fallacies onto others.

I've already explained to you what a rationalist is from the atheist perspective, the Christian evolutionist perspective, or from any perspective.

Taken from Wikipedia:
The modern rationalist movement is a philosophical doctrine that asserts that the truth can best be discovered by reason and factual analysis, rather than faith, dogma or religious teaching. Its original roots extend at least as far back as Plato. The rationalist movement has some similarities in ideology and intent to secular humanism, in that it aims to provide a framework for social and philosophical discourse outside of religious or supernatural beliefs; it also bears philosophical similarities to atheism; however, rationalism differs from both of these in that:

As its name suggests, secular humanism is centered on the dignity and worth of people. While rationalism is a key component of secular humanism, there is also a strong ethical component in humanism that rationalism does not extend into. As a result, being a rationalist does not necessarily mean being a humanist. ( Kind of irrational description of rationalism, isn't it? )


Atheism, a disbelief or lack of belief in a God, can be on any basis, or none at all, so it doesn't require rationalism.
(Well that's the truth! There isn't anything rational about atheism. )

Furthermore, rationalism does not, in itself, affirm or deny atheism, although it does reject any belief based on faith alone. Modern-day rationalism is strongly correlated with atheism, although historically this was not so. Most—if not all—prominent rationalists today, including scientists such as Richard Dawkins and activists such as Sanal Edamaruku, are atheists. (HELLO!!!! What is it? They do or they don't? Oh, where, or where did the rationalism go? Out the window I guess. )

Outside of religious discussion, the discipline of rationalism may be applied more generally; for example, to political or social issues. In these cases it is the "rejection of emotion", tradition or fashionable belief which is the defining feature of the rationalist perspective. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalist_movement

*Emphasis and blue is mine

I can't think of anything more irrational than rationalism. Just one more PROOF that the Bible is correct. Unbelief brings blindness and darkness of heart and confusion. #2 REASON TO BELIEVE IN GOD

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

You've been duped by the most irrational being of this universe, the god of this world, satan himself. #3 REASON TO BELIEVE IN GOD TO GET OUT FROM UNDER his DOMAIN

"For quite a lot of people, faith or the lack thereof, is an important part of their identities. E.g. a person will identify him or herself as a Muslim or a skeptic. Many religious rationalists, as well as non-religious people, criticise implicit faith as being irrational. In this view, belief should be restricted to what is directly supportable by logic or evidence."
--Wikipedia(Please NOTE Wikipedia is not the BIBLE

I don't know why you're obsessed with associating atheism and evolution, but that mindset is proving to be the most divisive in the history of Christianity. Your earlier of explanation pales compared to that of our emergence as a societal animal, a condition which evokes natural compassion for our brethren and fellows. And I still don't know why you think nothing matters if you're wrong. But I've already explained why nothing would matter if you were right.

What would matter Aron is that you and everyone else who rejects God, sides with the god of this world and therefore receives his eternal end...apart from the One who greatly loves you and only wants to share all that HE is and has with you. That matters to God, bigtime. #4 REASON FOR BELIEVING IN GOD.

I've also already shown from every authorative source what faith is, proving that it is not simply synonemous with trust, because faith is the condition of either trust, confidence, or belief that it be unreasonably stoic, and that it be assumed and maintained regardless of evidence.

Wrong! Faith is evidence. It is substance. More so than anything natural. Faith is produced from God's Word not religion.

Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hbr 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Faith pleases God. #5 REASON TO BELIEVE GOD

Throughout the New Testament Jesus and his followers claim their judgment is based on whether they have faith, and 2 Thessalonians 3:2 states plainly that not everyone does. In Matthew 21:21, Jesus gives the condition under which any of his followers might cause living things to wither and die simply by wishing it so, but only "if" they have faith. In Mark 4:40, Jesus asked the fishermen why they had no faith. Of course he said something different at the same moment in Luke 8:25, which is strange because you don't accept that there could be any internal inconsistencies, conflicts or contradictions in the Bible. Never the less, they are there.

• God good to all, or just a few?
• War or Peace?
• Who is the father of Joseph?
• Who was at the Empty Tomb?
• Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
• Which first--beasts or man?
• The number of beasts in the ark
• How many stalls and horsemen?
• Is it folly to be wise or not?
• Human vs. ghostly impregnation
• The sins of the father
• The bat is not a bird
• Rabbits do not chew their cud
• Insects do NOT have four feet
• Snails do not melt
• Fowl from waters or ground
• Odd genetic engineering
• The shape of the earth
• Snakes, while built low, do not eat dirt
• Earth supported?
• Heaven supported too
• The hydrological cycle
• Order of creation
• Moses' personality
• Righteous live?
• Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?
• Jesus' last words
• Years of famine
• Moved David to anger?
• The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?
• God be seen?
• CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD
• Tempts?
• Judas died how?
• Ascend to heaven
• What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial?
• How many time did the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow?
• Who killed Saul
• How many beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount
• Does every man sin?
• Who bought potter's field?
• Who prophesied the potter's field?
• Who bears guilt?
• Do you answer a fool?
• How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?
• How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?
• Marriage?
• Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
• Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?
• How many apostles were in office between the resurection and ascention?
• Judging
• Good deeds
• For or against?
• Whom did they see at the tomb?
• God change?
• Destruction of cities (what said was jeremiah was zechariah)
• Who's sepulchers?
• Strong drink?
• When second coming?
• Solomon's overseers
• The mother of Abijah
• When did Baasha die?
• How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
• Who was Josiah's successor?
• The differences in the census figures of Ezra and Nehemiah
• What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?
• What did they give him to drink?
• How long was Jesus in the tomb?

Insisting that everything in the Bible actually happened as stated, all conversations verbatim and absolutely true without error of any kind, and refusing to accept that some of the stories may be parables rather than historic chronicles.

The only conflict with the scripture is the interpretation of it by unbelievers, natural men, whether they be religious or non-religious.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.


One must be born again by the Spirit to understand the things of God. People can be religious without being born again or knowing God. As I said above, one can believe God exists, just as the devils do but still not "know" God. Being born again brings one back into spiritual relationship with God and opens up the communication of the Spirit of God with them. It is an actual "miraculous" rebirth of one's spirit man. #6 REASON WHY YOU SHOULD BELIEVE IN GOD

There are many more reasons for you to believe in God but I'll give you one more. #7 REASON WHY YOU SHOULD BELIEVE IN GOD


Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[Inan3]

Once again we have 1 Christian taking on 6-7 evolutionists.

Go, FoeHammer!

With God you out number them all!

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Once again we have 1 Christian taking on 6-7 evolutionists.

Go, FoeHammer!

With God you out number them all!

And yet at the end of the day, it's completely irrelevant.

 

[Inan3]

Even a brief review of this evidence is enough to compel one to believe in Common Descent.

Unless, of course, you can refute it. To which I am all ears.

Hawthorn fly

One example of evolution at work is the case of the hawthorn fly, Rhagoletis pomonella, also known as the apple maggot fly, which appears to be undergoing sympatric speciation.[7] Different populations of hawthorn fly feed on different fruits. A distinct population emerged in North America in the 19th century some time after apples, a non-native species, were introduced. This apple-feeding population normally feeds only on apples and not on the historically preferred fruit of hawthorns. The current hawthorn feeding population does not normally feed on apples. Some evidence, such as the fact that six out of thirteen allozyme loci are different, that hawthorn flies mature later in the season and take longer to mature than apple flies; and that there is little evidence of interbreeding (researchers have documented a 4-6% hybridization rate) suggests that this is occurring. The emergence of the new hawthorn fly is an example of evolution in progress.[8] (From Wikipedia)

THIS is the "evidence" that you give? This is it? This is no different than the title of this thread! Stories. Anyone could write whatever and you would say, "Even a brief review of this evidence is enough to compel one to believe in Common Descent." Compel? Are you kidding? This is not evidence. This is a made up theory to go with some different creatures that have been found and put in some made up order to make it look like it fits into some type of ancestry. This is not proof or anything.

 

[Inan3]

And yet at the end of the day, it's completely irrelevant.

Oh, such a poor outlook on life. Everything is relevant at the end of my day! and more so! But then again, with God life is relevant. Life has purpose. Life is alive.

With evolution, there's not much to look forward to or hope in, for tomorrow you die. It's over. Nothing is relevant then. No wonder you guys are so unhappy and sad.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

THIS is the "evidence" that you give? This is it? This is no different than the title of this thread! Stories. Anyone could write whatever and you would say, "Even a brief review of this evidence is enough to compel one to believe in Common Descent." Compel? Are you kidding? This is not evidence. This is a made up theory to go with some different creatures that have been found and put in some made up order to make it look like it fits into some type of ancestry. This is not proof or anything.

I'm going to frank in admitting that the general examples of "evolution in action" aren't terribly spectacular. Certainly there are evolutionary mechanisms at work, but relative to the evolutionary history of the species on Earth, snapshots of evolution occuring today aren't so dramatic.

The picture gets much clearer once you dive into genetics/genomics. Unfortunately, there's a much larger learning curve to climb before one can really understand and appreciate what its all about. And that's one of the hurdles that makes it all the easier to dismiss it. Without understanding, how can one accept it?

 

[Aron-Ra]

You know the devils also believe in God. They, unlike you, even know there is a God

So now you claim to know what imaginary things know about other imaginary things.

BUT they do not understand the things of God even as you do not understand the things of Goad as your speech reveals. One needs to be born again to understand the things of God, which is obvious never happened to you.

Wrong again. It happened when I was nineteen. But I got better.

REASON #1 TO UNDERSTAND THE THINGS OF GOD

To assume your own conclusions even though they be false is not a reason to believe.

Taken from Wikipedia:
The modern rationalist movement is a philosophical doctrine that asserts that the truth can best be discovered by reason and factual analysis, rather than faith, dogma or religious teaching. Its original roots extend at least as far back as Plato. The rationalist movement has some similarities in ideology and intent to secular humanism, in that it aims to provide a framework for social and philosophical discourse outside of religious or supernatural beliefs; it also bears philosophical similarities to atheism; however, rationalism differs from both of these in that:

As its name suggests, secular humanism is centered on the dignity and worth of people. While rationalism is a key component of secular humanism, there is also a strong ethical component in humanism that rationalism does not extend into. As a result, being a rationalist does not necessarily mean being a humanist. ( Kind of irrational description of rationalism, isn't it? )

I'm not at all surprised that you can't understand this -as I've seen what nonsense you pretend to understand -but which no person really can.

Atheism, a disbelief or lack of belief in a God, can be on any basis, or none at all, so it doesn't require rationalism.
(Well that's the truth! There isn't anything rational about atheism. )

It is rational not to believe impossible things for no reason and against all reason.

Furthermore, rationalism does not, in itself, affirm or deny atheism, although it does reject any belief based on faith alone. Modern-day rationalism is strongly correlated with atheism, although historically this was not so. Most—if not all—prominent rationalists today, including scientists such as Richard Dawkins and activists such as Sanal Edamaruku, are atheists. (HELLO!!!! What is it? They do or they don't? Oh, where, or where did the rationalism go? Out the window I guess. )

You have to have a basic grasp of logic to get this. But you can't have that and claim to understand the ways of God at the same time.

Outside of religious discussion, the discipline of rationalism may be applied more generally; for example, to political or social issues. In these cases it is the "rejection of emotion", tradition or fashionable belief which is the defining feature of the rationalist perspective. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalist_movement

*Emphasis and blue is mine

I can't think of anything more irrational than rationalism. Just one more PROOF that the Bible is correct. Unbelief brings blindness and darkness of heart and confusion. #2 REASON TO BELIEVE IN GOD

Emotional reactions are irrational, which is why this post is represents the most we can expect to see from you. Demonstrably false statements are no reason to believe.

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

You've been duped by the most irrational being of this universe, the god of this world, satan himself. #3 REASON TO BELIEVE IN GOD TO GET OUT FROM UNDER his DOMAIN

Yet what is the worst thing your "devil" ever did according to your Bible? Because if I remember correctly, while your god slaughtered and punished anyone not gullible enough to believe ridiculous things without reason, your devil's greatest "sin" was trying to reason with people. But unreasonable is no reason to believe.

What would matter Aron is that you and everyone else who rejects God, sides with the god of this world and therefore receives his eternal end...apart from the One who greatly loves you and only wants to share all that HE is and has with you. That matters to God, bigtime. #4 REASON FOR BELIEVING IN GOD.

Your god threatens a fate worse than death for anyone who dares question the hogwash you sell, and promises eternal glories for believers, as long as these rewards cannot be gained after you die, when no one can know if they're really real. These are not the conditions of anything truthful. These are the lies of a scam artist only. So they can only be a reason not to believe.

I've also already shown from every authorative source what faith is, proving that it is not simply synonemous with trust, because faith is the condition of either trust, confidence, or belief that it be unreasonably stoic, and that it be assumed and maintained regardless of evidence.

Wrong! Faith is evidence. It is substance. More so than anything natural. Faith is produced from God's Word not religion.

Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hbr 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Faith pleases God. #5 REASON TO BELIEVE GOD

Faith is literally make-believe, and pretending you're right can not make you right. All it can do is deceive you. Since your god was made up out of nothing and never existed, then the only source for this hogwash is religion, which is why faith is more whispy than vapor.

The only conflict with the scripture is the interpretation of it by unbelievers, natural men, whether they be religious or non-religious.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

One must be born again by the Spirit to understand the things of God. People can be religious without being born again or knowing God. As I said above, one can believe God exists, just as the devils do but still not "know" God. Being born again brings one back into spiritual relationship with God and opens up the communication of the Spirit of God with them. It is an actual "miraculous" rebirth of one's spirit man. #6 REASON WHY YOU SHOULD BELIEVE IN GOD

Been there, done that. But fortunately for me, I was saved from being "saved".

There are many more reasons for you to believe in God but I'll give you one more. #7 REASON WHY YOU SHOULD BELIEVE IN GOD

Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Of course it is impossible to please a con man without a demonstrating utter thoughtless gullability. Duh! But any being who cares a whit about truth would never desire faith in anyone.

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
--Sidhartha Gautama, Shakyamuni Buddha

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Oh, such a poor outlook on life. Everything is relevant at the end of my day! and more so! But then again, with God life is relevant. Life has purpose. Life is alive.

With evolution, there's not much to look forward to or hope in, for tomorrow you die. It's over. Nothing is relevant then. No wonder you guys are so unhappy and sad.

I'm not talking about life, I'm talking about the debate. None of this changes evolutionary science and how it is used. And on the philosophical side of things, these atheism vs fundemantalist Christianity debates don't seem to fare much better.

P.S. Evolution has nothing to do with atheism and vise-versa. Conflating the two is just bad philosophy.

 

[Inan3]

I'm going to frank in admitting that the general examples of "evolution in action" aren't terribly spectacular. Certainly there are evolutionary mechanisms at work, but relative to the evolutionary history of the species on Earth, snapshots of evolution occuring today aren't so dramatic.

The picture gets much clearer once you dive into genetics/genomics. Unfortunately, there's a much larger learning curve to climb before one can really understand and appreciate what its all about. And that's one of the hurdles that makes it all the easier to dismiss it. Without understanding, how can one accept it?

Well, Pete, I am impressed. Thank you for being real and for being human.

 

[Lilandra]

Oh, such a poor outlook on life. Everything is relevant at the end of my day! and more so! But then again, with God life is relevant. Life has purpose. Life is alive.

Then it would be quite foolish to spend your short life deceiving yourself.

With evolution, there's not much to look forward to or hope in, for tomorrow you die. It's over. Nothing is relevant then. No wonder you guys are so unhappy and sad.

You know evolution is a scientific theory not an outlook on life. There are aspects of nature that much harder to accept if you are unfortunate enough to run afoul of them. For example, the physics and chemistry of running into a tanker truck at 70 mph.

Some aspects of evolution like reproduction are quite pleasant. Thank you evolution!

 

[Lilandra]

You know the devils also believe in God. They, unlike you, even know there is a God BUT they do not understand the things of God even as you do not understand the things of Goad as your speech reveals. One needs to be born again to understand the things of God, which is obvious never happened to you.

How are you able to tell online if someone was ever a Christian or not?

 

[Inan3]

I'm not at all surprised that you can't understand this -as I've seen what nonsense you pretend to understand -but which no person really can.

That's just it. I do understand what it is saying and if you will be honest you will also, see that if anything is irrational that is irrational. I understand God and His word very well. I know it is real. It's actually more rational to believe in God than not to.
I don't know what happened to you when you were 19 but you but you never were born again. You never really knew the Lord.

It is rational not to believe impossible things for no reason and against all reason.

But all things are possible with God and to those that believe.

You have to have a basic grasp of logic to get this. But you can't have that and claim to understand the ways of God at the same time.

Of course, you can. To believe in God is very logical. To believe in intellegent design is very logical. To believe that things deteriorate when they begin to breakdown is logical. Nature itself tells us there is a God. It's very logical to believe the truth - To believe that everything just appeared out of nothing is illogical. To not see the design in every living thing is illogical. To believe that things mutate or become deformed and then become superior is illogical. it's illogical to believe a lie.

Emotional reactions are irrational,

It's irrational to respond or react to someone you love with your emotions? It's irrational to feel compassion for and react to people in need. It's irrational to cry when you are sad or laugh when you feel happy? No I would say all those things are human and rational. It is the person who feels nothing that is irrational. Or feels something but never reacts that is irrational. I would say that for someone to ONLY react to ALL things emotionally is irrational. I would also say that emotions are fickle and changes often so one should not solely trust in their emotions but that is why God's word is rational it teaches this very thing.

Demonstrably false statements are no reason to believe.

This is true.

But any being who cares a whit about truth would never desire faith in anyone. [/FONT]

Faith is the one thing that everyone can have. It's totally a choice. That's why it is the best bridge to God. To believe that God is, is for our benefit our good. That is the basis and source of our joy, our hope, our purpose. To not believe or have faith that He is is to deny your own self for He is a REWARDER of those that diligently seek Him. That is for our benefit not His. Unbelief stems from rebellion, from satan himself. It's a self righteousness that says I don't need God when in truth we desparately need Him for life itself. That is what the devils sin was. He thought he would exalt himself above God. That will never happen. The creature is not greater than the Creator. It's like a child saying I do not need parents. We need our parents to nurture us, to teach us, to support us, etc. God is a Father to those who will receive Him. He is the Lover of our souls. He's the Lover of your soul even though you reject Him.

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
--Sidhartha Gautama, Shakyamuni Buddha

I agree with this statement. The Word of God and His plan is for the benefit of one and all, so accept it and live up to it!

 

[USincognito]

Once again we have 1 Christian taking on 6-7 evolutionists.

False dichotomy. There are Christians who advocate evolution.

This is supposed to be the Creationist vs. evolution subforum but people like you and Foehammer drag it into Apologetics.

 

[Inan3]

[/COLOR]

How are you able to tell online if someone was ever a Christian or not?

The same way you can tell in person by what they are saying. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good tree brings forth good fruit and an evil tree brings forth evil fruit. What be believe comes out our mouth. You listen to a person and you can locate them. It's not something that can be hidden eventually it will come out. Faith and our words go hand in hand.

 

[Lilandra]

The same way you can tell in person by what they are saying. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good tree brings forth good fruit and an evil tree brings forth evil fruit. What be believe comes out our mouth. You listen to a person and you can locate them. It's not something that can be hidden eventually it will come out. Faith and our words go hand in hand.

Okay, but doesn't the Bible say that only Jesus can judge such a thing? Didn't he say that people will come to him thinking that he will reognize him as one of his own and he will say that he doesn't know them?

You seem to be stealing God's thunder there.

 

[Inan3]

False dichotomy. There are Christians who advocate evolution.

This is supposed to be the Creationist vs. evolution subforum but people like you and Foehammer drag it into Apologetics.

Are we talking to each other?

The very nature of Creationism is that there is a Creator. That there is a Creator is that there is God. That there is God is that there is the Word of God. That there is the Word of God is that there is Christ. That there is Christ is that there is Christianity. That there is Christianity is that there is faith. That there is faith is that there is a Creator, etc.

To not include these would be to say that biology and palentolgy and geology and any other science could not be included.