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Fairytale?

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Nathan Poe

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Well let me see, God's Word or Christopher (nobody) Hitchings word .... What shall I believe? What shall I base my life on? Hmmmm?


You get the point.

The point is that you think the Bible floated down from heaven with God's ink still wet on the pages.

You want to base your life on that misconception? Be my guest. But don't presume to call the rest of us "fools" for choosing Reason instead.
 
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Nathan Poe

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Absolutely brilliant???? Oh come on. It was cute but not brilliant. Any fool could have said it. Now don't go reporting me TMT or NP. I'm not saying NP is a fool anymore than he was saying I was a fool by because I believe there is a God.

First of all, don't hassle the man just because he recognizes genius when he reads it. ;)

Second, if you're not calling me a fool, then why did you cite that particular piece of Scripture in the first place? What, if anything, was your point?

Once again, you leave half of what the post was meaning out. I was pointing out what was meant by the Proverb.

Sounds to me like you wanted to call Atheists fools, but decided to hide behind the Bible to do it.

Well, number one reason is because God says so and secondly, they miss out on the benefits that He has for them. Those two cover most of the reasons.

And here we're back to the old "The Bible floated down from Heaven with God's ink wet on the pages" canard.

Well just like most jobs it's not all that relevent. One could do their experiments without it. But to ones spiritual state and life it is most benefitial. Just a note here, no one is advocating that the scriptures were written for science only. The scriptures cover a far greater scope than science. Life covers a far greater scope than science.

One could easily claim that the Scriptures were not written for science at all -- so why attempt to apply them there? In spite of the lies you've most likely been fed by various creationists, nobody is trying to use science to replace God, so why use a BibleGod to replace science?

One does not use an Algebra textbook to perform open hear surgery -- use the right tool for the right job.

No, but your prayers could help you to get more understanding of how to do certain things within an experiment. After all, "if it is a known fact that chemical A + chemical B make 97% Chemical C and 3% chemical D" then God would know that because HE made it that way. But if there is something that is NOT a known fact, and I assume that is why you are doing experiments...to find out, then God could give you help and understanding on what to do.

Prayer, however, is not going to take the place of those experiments, nor is it going to alter the outcome of those experiments -- thus changing the natural laws which every theist believes God set in place.

For example, suppose it is a known fact that Chemical X + Chemical Y is going to cause one mother of an explosion -- the kind where you really want to be somewhere else when it happens.

Should you accidentally mix these two chemicals, you might have some time to pray -- to make peace with God. Wouldn't it be presumptuous to demand God stop His own laws of nature just to save your careless self?

God would never do it that way. He doesn't have to. He knows each outcome.

Never? Who are you to tell God what He can, cannot, would, would not do?

A person who trusts in God is never left in the dark. But I suppose this reasoning is a stab at your being faceteous about the subject.

A person who trusts ion God has faith. Faith, however, is a poor substitute for knowledge.

And the idea that God is so interested in minutiae that He will arbitrarily suspend the laws of Nature to suit your needs is the height of hubris.

That's where you have it backward. It is evolutionists that want to "force fit" God out of everything and Creationists know that to do so would be a gross error and misjustice of truth. God is greater and more infinite than all the science that is, ever has been or ever will be.

And precisely because He's so great, He doesn't seem to have much interest in trivialities such as physics, gravity, or biology. I say this not from presumption, but from experience.

I drop a rock. It falls straight down.

I drop the same rock 9,999 times. It falls straight down every time.

Now, if we accept the existence of God, then we can say that He can change gravity for that 10,000th drop so that it falls to the left instead of straight down -- you with me so far?

Now, how likely is He to do this? Shall we toss out all predictive power of scientific study -- which has served us well since ancient times -- based on the mere possibility that God might pull that rock to the left for no reason?

God can muck around with the universe any way He chooses. But the fact that we have personally observed so much order, so many patterns in that universe without change or exception leads to one of two most likely conclusions:

1: There is no God. Or
2: God exists, but really has no interest in mucking about with the universe for no reason.

Which one of these is correct? It really doesn't matter. Science is the unbiased observation of natural phenomena. So long as God doesn't have His thumb on the scales, it really makes no difference whether He's there or not.

Why then, do Creationists insist on shoehorning Him into any situation where an answer is not immediately clear?
 
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Inan3

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Actually, it was in the "Creation Science: Knowlageable YEC Christians show me the way" thread. And I would like to correct myself and point out that Inan3 did not call me an atheist. She said that I was "using science to back up (my) lies." And that my religious naturalistic bias was getting in the way. And that I've never looked at the "evidence" of Intelligent Design.

But she didn't call me an atheist.

You know TO, I looked for the post you are referencing but I could only find your post with a quote without my name attached to it. Without my name I don't feel it is fair to suggest it is my quote without my actual post #. I could not find the original post by me on that thread. Since you say it was me, I ask again if you would provide the # of my post where I actually said this.
 
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Inan3

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You've been told time and time again that this isn't true. Science is agnostic. There is no need to invoke God to understand anything about the natural world. Plus you are still using that fallacy that all evolutionists are evil atheists. There are millions of Christians that have absolutely no problem with TOE. Oh wait, that's right. They aren't True Christians because they don't believe exactly the same thing as you. :doh:

So are you suggesting that I am lying?
 
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thaumaturgy

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Once again, you leave half of what the post was meaning out. I was pointing out what was meant by the Proverb.

You seem to complain a lot about what other people do to respond to your post. You need to be mindful of what you post.

You can't control other people, you can only control your posts.

(Hint: Not everyone who disagrees with you or responds in a way you weren't planning is "twisting" your words. Sometimes others may think differently from you.)

Well, number one reason is because God says so and secondly, they miss out on the benefits that He has for them. Those two cover most of the reasons.


That seems rather "meaning-free".

God "says so"? Really? Where?

No, but your prayers could help you to get more understanding of how to do certain things within an experiment.

How?

God would never do it that way. He doesn't have to. He knows each outcome.

How do YOU know that? You make a claim about God as if to limit him????

Sorry, but that doesn't compute. How do you know what God will or won't do? Are you above God?
 
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Inan3

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My mistake on the thread... there were several that contained similar accusations against several different people ;). (and I'm not trying to make a snide remark about you, Inan3, this was just simply what many of those posts sounded like to me).

But since you say this before all. I would say it is your responsibility to provide the burden of proof. Please reference for me the many posts that sounded like that to you.

At least she didn't call you an athiest!! :swoon:

Now if I had said this I would have every atheist jumping down my throat and accusing me of calling them evil, etc. Oh, and don't forget reporting me to the moderators. I guess it matters what side your on as to whether you can say things or not.
 
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Inan3

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This is how it went. Emphasis is mine

It says in Proverbs that like a dog returns to its own vomit, a fool will return to his own folly.

I am not sure who that fits more aptly, us for continuously trying to reason with you or you for rejecting reason in favor of continuued ignorance of science.


It also, says in Proverbs the fool has said in his heart there is no God.

I know that does not fit me.

So what? Just as all poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are poodles, not every fool says there is no God.

Alas, the Bible has a Book of Proverbs, but not a Book of Logic.

The point is that you think the Bible floated down from heaven with God's ink still wet on the pages.

You want to base your life on that misconception? Be my guest. But don't presume to call the rest of us "fools" for choosing Reason instead.

Far worse folly to believe in the wrong creator.

Repent and accept Iggy the Magic Elf into your heart before it's too late! :pray:

Second, if you're not calling me a fool, then why did you cite that particular piece of Scripture in the first place? What, if anything, was your point?


Sounds to me like you wanted to call Atheists fools, but decided to hide behind the Bible to do it.


In spite of the liesyou've most likely been fed by various creationists, nobody is trying to use science to replace God, so why use a BibleGod to replace science?


Never? Who are you to tell God what He can, cannot, would, would not do?
 
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dukeofhazzard

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But since you say this before all. I would say it is your responsibility to provide the burden of proof. Please reference for me the many posts that sounded like that to you.


I didn't realize that I had to provide thread links for every personal observation I made.

Now if I had said this I would have every atheist jumping down my throat and accusing me of calling them evil, etc. Oh, and don't forget reporting me to the moderators. I guess it matters what side your on as to whether you can say things or not.

I think it's because they recognize 'tongue in cheek' when they see it...
 
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Inan3

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I didn't realize that I had to provide thread links for every personal observation I made.



No but when you accuse people of things don't you think you should? It's only fair.

I think it's because they recognize 'tongue in cheek' when they see it...

Well, we all know it's because you are one of them and everything is okay and fair from your kind.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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your point?
Inan3, I agree with Nathan here (such a rare event, I know): what is your point? As far as I can tell, your post, quotes and all, serves only to undermine your position and drive people away from your faith. so yea, what did you hope to achieve?
 
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Inan3

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You seem to complain a lot about what other people do to respond to your post. You need to be mindful of what you post.

Well, aren't you just the pot calling the kettle black! But I got a good chuckle out of it anyway. Thanks.

You can't control other people, you can only control your posts.

(Hint: Not everyone who disagrees with you or responds in a way you weren't planning is "twisting" your words. Sometimes others may think differently from you.)

Oh, I know exactly what twisting is and so do you. It is certainly not the little hint you tried to pass off as an excuse above .... trying to justify yourself and others who do it all the time.

That seems rather "meaning-free".

????????

God "says so"? Really? Where?

In His Word.

How do YOU know that? You make a claim about God as if to limit him????
Only in your understanding!!!!!!

Sorry, but that doesn't compute. How do you know what God will or won't do?

I told you. I KNOW Him! He's my Father and Jesus is my Lord.

Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.


Are you above God?

Here's a perfect example of the way you twist or even add to what someone says. I NEVER SAID I WAS ABOVE GOD. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
 
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Inan3

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I know it is foolish to keep it going.:sigh:

Well, let's see so there's one of me and fifteen of you. But I do agree with you. So even if it stops with me it still won't stop with them. :sigh:
 
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Inan3

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Inan3, I agree with Nathan here (such a rare event, I know): what is your point? As far as I can tell, your post, quotes and all, serves only to undermine your position and drive people away from your faith. so yea, what did you hope to achieve?

He asked me why I put the scripture in. I was showing him why. My point was to answer his question.

As to my posts, quotes and all, I have not done or said anything wrong in my posts. I might have made a few mistakes but I have admitted and corrected what I have felt I did wrong. As to what you have thought I have done wrong, I can only assume it comes from a biased mind against Creationists. Whatever we say is wrong. But for whatever reason that is. It isn't because of my posts. You see, I couldn't drive people away from my faith even if I wanted to. It's a choice that even satan himself can't keep you from.

You all have made it very clear what you think about God and His Word. It is your own unbelief that keeps you away from God. It is not the fault of my posts, creationists, or any thing else. It is your own choice to NOT believe the Word of God. Everyone has that choice and everyone will be judged for what choice they made. My posts will never hold up as an excuse as to why you did not make the choice to receive God's Son. It's only what you do that will matter.
 
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