Explaining the God particle

[Elendur]

Example?

Your arbitrary definition or when you've changed them?

 

[florida2]

Rather than thinking linear it might be best to think time. From what I deduce it is likely a change in laws happened somewhere around 4400 years ago.

As for deep space, since we can't go there, we don't know. Science does admit to being able to see almost nothing of what is out there! And that doesn't include time or space.

What scientific evidence do you have for this change 4400 years ago? Please give details of how laws were different and how they changed.

So you admit that laws elsewhere in the universe aren't necessarily different. You simply say that as we haven't been there we don't know.

Everything on Earth obeys the same physical laws and so do things we observe, so there's no reason to suggest that laws are different anywhere else. There is no known mechanism for them to be different.

 

[Tiberius]

Speculation. You merely assume you can go ahead and apply fishbowl geometry and laws on a different state with different laws. Not an argument based on knowledge or fact.

Speculation. You merely assume you can go ahead and apply DSP geometry and laws on a same state with same laws. Not an argument based on knowledge or fact.

 

[dad]

Did I now and is it now? Read what I wrote again.

I think you better read it again.

 

[dad]

Speculation. You merely assume you can go ahead and apply DSP geometry and laws on a same state with same laws. Not an argument based on knowledge or fact.

Absurd. I do not know the state of the far universe and did not offer claims of distance and size and laws and etc as science does. I am all for honest debate.

 

[dad]

Your arbitrary definition or when you've changed them?

When I changed them. (in your dreams)

 

[dad]

What scientific evidence do you have for this change 4400 years ago? Please give details of how laws were different and how they changed.

What science is available to tell us what the state of the past was back then? None. But we can know by the record of observers and God's word.

So you admit that laws elsewhere in the universe aren't necessarily different. You simply say that as we haven't been there we don't know.

Well, I suspect they are. Something is different, that's for sure.

Everything on Earth obeys the same physical laws and so do things we observe, so there's no reason to suggest that laws are different anywhere else.

There's no reason to suggest that laws are the same anywhere else.

There is no known mechanism for them to be different.

There is no known mechanism for them to be known, period!

 

[CabVet]

There's no reason to suggest that laws are the same anywhere else.

I am beginning to suspect these "laws" are different in your head.

 

[dad]

I am beginning to suspect these "laws" are different in your head.

Relax. God told us of different times and nature in the bible.

 

[Elendur]

I think you better read it again.

I have, my argument still stands.

 

[dad]

I have, my argument still stands.

I doubt that.

 

[Elendur]

When I changed them. (in your dreams)

Ok. Here is a review of your DSP thread:
________________________________________________________

Oh...for the honest lurkers....this...

http://splitmerge.webs.com/split.pdf

That paper you gave has dated it 4300 years.

Yes. At least for the last 4400 years.

4400 years here

Your 10,000 fantasy years. Support the dating. Otherwise it is gas.

10'000 years here.

The nature change likely was about 4400 plus years ago. So science falls well within the present state. Let me know if you still don't get it.

4400+ years here.

It was likely about 4400 years ago. Now, can I have an exact date for your big bang?

~4400 years here.

Hey that 4400 years is within maybe a few hunderd, probably a few decades! So called science eat your heart out.

4400 +- 100n +- 10m here.

Laws were different, yes, of course. We would have to take any implications of that into account also.

4000 years here, you agreed to that number.

4400 years presumably..

4400 years here again, but with an added "presumably".

A bit over 6000 years.

6000+ years here.

Of course things decayed for 4400 years. Not a real big 'entire length' for the decay process!

4400 years here.

How much daughter material was produced since 4400 years?

4400 years here.
________________________________________________________



Also see:

The records of the bible and also the earliest human civilizations of Egypt and Sumer agree in some points. But it is no theory that science does not know and cannot prove the state of the past or future. That is obvious fact.

Since they do not know then, all models based on a belief in a same state past are dead in the water.

The bible is clear. Trees that grew faster than anything possible now. People living a thousand years....a world of water and land separating...no great heat....an ark thousands of years ago with all kinds that produced all we now see...etc etc.

The spirits that lived with men in Egypt and the bible are another indication. So the only proof man has agrees with me.


Science works from the present state...nothing more. Any models of the distant universe or far past stem only from extrapolations of that belief.

(Here you utilize the records older than the bible)

Sumer and Egypt were post flood. So there are none before it.

(Here you dismiss all records before the bible)

Oh, and I like these two posts (sums up your character quite neatly, no explanation, only assertion and boastful pride):

I am certain you are wrong.

The famous DSP did not start in this thread.

________________________________________________________

All (and I literally mean everyone) links you posted in the 104 pages:

http://splitmerge.webs.com/

http://genesis.allenaustin.net/antediluvian.htm

http://splitmerge.webs.com/timeline.html

Fossil Mammal Resembling Dog-Hare Hybrid Found in Bolivia

Funny about the 3 molar thingie What cud it mean?

http://earth.usc.edu/~stott/Catalina/Cretaceous.html

fossils opals australia rocks shells palaeontology cretaceous dinosaur jurassic

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/education/events/cowen1b.html

http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/weeks.htm

http://www.gty.org/products/Audio-Bible-Study/6003/Daniel-Vol-03

Israel's Future, Part 2

Mysterious Dark Matter Becomes More Mysterious - Space News - redOrbit

Rock dated by rubidium decay, a sample of the element Rubidium in the Periodic Table

"The utility of the rubidium-strontium isotope system results from the fact that 87Rb (one of two naturally occurring isotopes of rubidium) decays to 87Sr with a halflife of 48.8 billion years."

Rubidium-strontium dating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rock dated by rubidium decay, a sample of the element Rubidium in the Periodic Table

"It reveals Mount Kinabalu as the youngest granite pluton in the world....

In order to understand the geology of this mountain, we must go back 35 million years when Borneo was submerged beneath the sea. Marine sediments began accumulating where Mount Kinabalu now stands."

Mount Kinabalu Borneo.com | The Geology of Mount Kinabalu

In logic and rhetoric, a fallacy is usually an improper argumentation in reasoning often resulting in a misconception or presumption.

________________________________________________________

And that concludes my 104 page tour. After reviewing it I still think post #847 is as valid as the day I wrote it:

So, I encourage you to learn these three definitions:
Proof
Objective evidence
Subjective evidence

And this concept:
Epistemology

 

[Elendur]

I doubt that.

Of course you do. You'll never admit to being wrong.

 

[Tiberius]

Absurd. I do not know the state of the far universe and did not offer claims of distance and size and laws and etc as science does. I am all for honest debate.

If this was true, you'd examine the evidence for a same state past. You do not. You just arbitrarily declare it wrong. You'd also provide evidence to support your own position, but again you do not. You say only that we can't prove you wrong (which is also untrue).

You are not interested in debate.

 

[Tiberius]

What science is available to tell us what the state of the past was back then? None. But we can know by the record of observers and God's word.

Ah, once again you refuse to actually answer the question, but instead ask the same question back to the person. And then you think you have addressed what they said.

I thought you said you were all for honest debate?

There's no reason to suggest that laws are the same anywhere else.

Yes there is, as I and many others have explained to you countless times.

There is no known mechanism for them to be known, period!

Yes there is and I have explained it to you.

 

[dad]

Ok. Here is a review of your DSP thread:
________________________________________________________


That paper you gave has dated it 4300 years.


4400 years here


10'000 years here.


4400+ years here.


~4400 years here.


4400 +- 100n +- 10m here.


4000 years here, you agreed to that number.


4400 years here again, but with an added "presumably".


6000+ years here.


4400 years here.


4400 years here.
________________________________________________________

Context. One may use approximations. As I have said many times I feel that the change was a little over a century after the flood, in the days of Peleg. Never have changed that. Doubt I will because it is a strong case.


By the way, I mocked the 10,000 years date, not claimed it. Also whenever 6000 or so years is used it refers all the way back to creation.

Also see:


(Here you utilize the records older than the bible)

Clearly I have said your dates are wrong...records are fine.

(Here you dismiss all records before the bible)

There were no civilizations before the flood. Egypt and Sumer were some of the first ones. Your dates are wrong. Simple. Same state past religion, every single ancient date you propose, so of zero value.

Oh, and I like these two posts (sums up your character quite neatly, no explanation, only assertion and boastful pride):

Sometimes when people post a certain way, I am a little short with them, and respond in kind. Especially when I covered it many times before in detail.

________________________________________________________

All (and I literally mean everyone) links you posted in the 104 pages:

Thanks for those. I was just trying to remember the hare one for some rabbit cud chewing question.


For the lurkers, no I have never changed dates for the nature change.

 

[dad]

Of course you do. You'll never admit to being wrong.

We are all wrong every day I would think. If you mean that the bible is wrong, no one ever will need to admit that, it ain't so. So called science is a body of wrongness incorporated.

 

[dad]

Ah, once again you refuse to actually answer the question, but instead ask the same question back to the person. And then you think you have addressed what they said.

I thought you said you were all for honest debate?

The answer was that science does not cover it, period. For any state of the past. So asking for what "scientific evidence do you have for this change " is a silly notion. That is like asking 'what evidence does Santa have for the tooth fairy?'

Yes there is, as I and many others have explained to you countless times.

The evidence is from God and history, not from science.
I explained that you would need to know what space was far away, and what laws existed, and how time was a art of it. Until then you cannot know distance, composition, time involved, or size. Oh, and evos, size does matter.

Yes there is and I have explained it to you.

Your only 'mechanism' is to sit on or near earth, and dream.

 

[Elendur]

Context. One may use approximations. As I have said many times I feel that the change was a little over a century after the flood, in the days of Peleg. Never have changed that. Doubt I will because it is a strong case.

By the way, I mocked the 10,000 years date, not claimed it. Also whenever 6000 or so years is used it refers all the way back to creation.

Ok, just appeared to me like you did.

Clearly I have said your dates are wrong...records are fine.
There were no civilizations before the flood. Egypt and Sumer were some of the first ones. Your dates are wrong. Simple. Same state past religion, every single ancient date you propose, so of zero value.

You see, the only sources you provided with in favor of your DSP hypothesis were these two:

Home - A Journey of Discovery

​

Genesis and the Antediluvians
​

I find your evidence lacking (few and highly subjective sources) and many others have demanded additional evidence as well.

Sometimes when people post a certain way, I am a little short with them, and respond in kind. Especially when I covered it many times before in detail.

Often you come across as if you think of yourself as someone without fault, I think you might benefit from toning that down.

Thanks for those. I was just trying to remember the hare one for some rabbit cud chewing question.

No problem.

For the lurkers, no I have never changed dates for the nature change.

If the outliers were mistakes from my part and the closer ones approximations I'll agree. Then I'll retract my previous statement.

 

[Elendur]

We are all wrong every day I would think. If you mean that the bible is wrong, no one ever will need to admit that, it ain't so. So called science is a body of wrongness incorporated.

We're not necessarily wrong every day, I would say we're often wrong but sometime has to be the exception.

If you are taking the bible literally I would say that it's a faulty interpretation, a non-literal approach is more reasonable and ethical in my experience.

Science is the best way (that I know of) so far to explain how the world works in an objective and secular way, it has made much progress in millions of ways to improve our lives. How would it be able to do that if it's wrong?