Explaining the God particle

[Tiberius]

With science one cannot test the future or far past laws and forces. The way we test what the past was like is the bible. That...or nothing.

How have you verified that the Bible is an accurate diagnostic tool?

We should see what we see.

Okay, so let's say you are right. There was a different state past. How is the world we live in different to the world that we'd be seeing if the past was a same state?

 

[Tiberius]

Do you mean truth or Truth?

I mean reality. What is actually correct.

Why? What do you mean when you say "truth"?

 

[Gracchus]

Do you mean truth or Truth?

Why? What do you mean when you say "truth"?

And what is the difference between "truth" and "Truth", other than the capital letter on the latter?

 

[Tiberius]

And what is the difference between "truth" and "Truth", other than the capital letter on the latter?

Doncha know? the "truth" is just that pesky stuff scienticians find out about. But the Truth is what AV feels inside, or at least pretends to (if he's a Poe as I suspect).

 

[mzungu]

The Internet isn't the media?

Maybe some of us don't like to talk technobabble all the time.

It was the American media that dubbed it the God particle since Higgs Boson had named it the "God@#$ particle" and the American reporters said that such a name will not be accepted in America, and renamed it to the God particle.

 

[AV1611VET]

I mean reality. What is actually correct.

Was Pluto truth/reality from 1930-2006?

If not, did scientists think they had the truth/reality ... but really didn't?

 

[AV1611VET]

It was the American media that dubbed it the God particle since Higgs Boson had named it the "God@#$ particle" and the American reporters said that such a name will not be accepted in America, and renamed it to the God particle.

It's about time American reporters stood up to a scientist.

 

[mzungu]

Was Pluto truth/reality from 1930-2006?

If not, did scientists think they had the truth/reality ... but really didn't?

Yes it was until science redefined Pluto due to the increased knowledge of our solar system. AV, why are you so obsessed with the evolution of science? This is how it works; Science defines the physical world in accordance to the knowledge it has at any given time. As more knowledge is acquired the so does the definitions science gives changes to conform to the new knowledge.

I know that in Religion such methodology is incompatible and religion is basically a static dogma but science does not work like this.

Try to separate the two else you will always be making the same mistake over and over.

 

[mzungu]

It's about time American reporters stood up to a scientist.

Reporters are reporters and scientists are scientists. How would you judge a reporter coming to your church and renaming Jesus?

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes it was until science redefined Pluto due to the increased knowledge of our solar system.

Then don't tell me science has the truth/reality, when science "improves" itself with each new discovery.

In 2005, if a man was on the witness stand and was asked, "I want the truth. Is Pluto our 9th planet?" The answer would have been, "Of course it is."

In 2007, if a man was on the witness stand and was asked, "I want the truth. Is Pluto our 9th planet?" The answer would be, "No, it is not."

 

[AV1611VET]

Reporters are reporters and scientists are scientists. How would you judge a reporter coming to your church and renaming Jesus?

Jesus is Truth ... science claims "truth," then quickly Arab-phones it to "reality" when questioned; as this thread demonstrates.

 

[BobAliceEve]

Referring to page 48 we get new bodies, and a new earth in a new place:

Isaiah 13:
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the bearth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce danger.

14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

Isaiah 24:
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Isaiah 65:17
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Ether 13:9
9 And there shall be a new heaven and a new earth; and they shall be like unto the old save the old have passed away, and all things have become new.

Revelation 21:1
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isaiah 66:22
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.

 

[AV1611VET]

Referring to page 48...

Page 48 of what? Doctrines & Covenants?

 

[mzungu]

Then don't tell me science has the truth/reality, when science "improves" itself with each new discovery.

In 2005, if a man was on the witness stand and was asked, "I want the truth. Is Pluto our 9th planet?" The answer would have been, "Of course it is."

In 2007, if a man was on the witness stand and was asked, "I want the truth. Is Pluto our 9th planet?" The answer would be, "No, it is not."

Likewise if I were to ask in Biblical times if the Earth is flat then undoubtedly the answer would have been "yes".

AV, did you run before you learnt to walk? Did you walk before you learnt to crawl? Did you read the Bible before you learnt to read? Science is a quest for knowledge and if you have missed this point then I am sure that if you think about it you will see the err of your reasoning!

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

So how would that work, two gay first lifeforms got married in the beginning?

No. This is another place where we agree with Protestants, actually.

Well, Jesus also referred to it here

Mr 13:19 -For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And of course the other folks in the New Testament believed...

1Co 15:45 -And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul;

The first comment does contain a reference to the creation of the Earth, but it's only in passing. The second (while Divinely inspired) comes from one of Paul's letters, rather than Jesus' Earthly ministry, so I wasn't counting it. At any rate, neither of them really contribute here.

Since present physics is all you use, of course when a scramble for a new explanation is needed after getting busted, that is what you turn to.

It works, though, which means that present state physics can explain things in space. Sometimes, we get something wrong. This is true even on Earth. We revise what we expected to find, we go back, and we look to see if the results are consistent with our new understanding. Then, if they are, we incorporate that new understanding into our theories, and it becomes predictive. If its predictions are true, then that's support for its being accurate.

For instance, Einstein, in his formulas of general relativity, included a cosmological constant to allow for a stationary Universe. Otherwise, general relativity would suggest an expanding Universe. When the red-shifting of distant galaxies was discovered, Einstein decided to remove his cosmological constant. We were suddenly looking at a Universe that suggested continual expansion.

?? I think you mean we would not see that..?

But if we see it around the sun, that is in our space. If we think we see it on two perhaps little objects not so far away, that we think are millions of light years away and huge...well, we might need to re look! No distance or size is known, unless the far space is known.

We actually see gravitational lensing between objects at any given distance, some of which are much too large to be nearby. For instance, this is a photo of galaxies with distortion due to gravitational lensing:

As a result, we can safely say that gravitational lensing occurs at very great distances from the Earth.

 

[AV1611VET]

Likewise if I were to ask in Biblical times if the Earth is flat then undoubtedly the answer would have been "yes".

Would God have answered YES, if He would have answered?

If not, okay if I don't think so either?

Science is a quest for knowledge and if you have missed this point then I am sure that if you think about it you will see the err of your reasoning!

Until that quest is complete, I'm going to take it with a grain of salt when science claims they have the [overall] truth.

 

[mzungu]

Would God have answered YES, if He would have answered?

I would be very surprised if he actually answered.

Until that quest is complete, I'm going to take it with a grain of salt when science claims they have the [overall] truth.

there is no end to the quest for new knowledge. Have you stopped learning? The day science stops learning is the day science will cease to exist.

I simply cannot understand why you fear science so

 

[AV1611VET]

I would be very surprised if he actually answered.

there is no end to the quest for new knowledge. Have you stopped learning? The day science stops learning is the day science will cease to exist.

I simply cannot understand why you fear science so

You're not addressing what I've been railing against ... that's the problem.

For about the 10th time, when science tells me they have the truth, I feel compelled to simply ask if they had it from 1930 - 2006.

I don't think that's an unfair question, in light of what is being addressed.

Anyone who says science has the truth is ... in my opinion ... wrong.

And Arab-phoning "truth" to "reality" doesn't fool me.

 

[BobAliceEve]

Page 48 of what? Doctrines & Covenants?

Page 48 of this discussion.

 

[BobAliceEve]

I would be very surprised if he actually answered.

there is no end to the quest for new knowledge. Have you stopped learning? The day science stops learning is the day science will cease to exist.

I simply cannot understand why you fear science so

I don't fear science, I simply know it's limitations. Eventually science will know everything. And it will cease to exist as was written a few posts above.