Expert answers needed for these questions...

[Devoted to the Lord!]

I had a conversation with a muslim:

He claims that the bible was changed in the council of 325, the council of Nicea and the council of Aleppo.

And that Mohammed was sent to revive the true ideas.

He said it says in the Plasms of wou in the 23rd verse:
"He shall be like moses and shall be from the mount of paran, brother of the Jews"

He said that this is Mohammed, because Mohammed did battle like like moses and brought new order, mecca is the mount of paran, and the brother of the jews are arabs.

He said that God sent the plasms of David, the Torah, the bible and now the Qu'ran. The plasms are lost, the Torah and bible have been changed. God always sent a reviver of faith through the prophets, mohammed was the last with the eternal Qu'ran.
He said as the Qu'ran says "we have brought down the word and shall keep it"

He said Mohammed never knew the stories yet they are identical to the Torah and bible, and that mohammed was illiterate and far away from Jews and christians who he could have heard the stories from.

He said the Qu'ran says another man was crucified in Jesus' place.

He said the Jews have enclosed themslves and made the creator to the level of the creation as for the christians they have made jesus into a God.

He said that the Torah supports that only Jews shall go to heaven, which goes against God's wishes, and that the Bible has encompansated many false allegations and ideas.

He said christianity has many odd mysteries like God is one, why make him into a trinity etc.

Please answer these claims, thank you.

 

[Devoted to the Lord!]

*bump*

 

[Christ Aficionado]

Here is your answer: Your friend is wrong.

 

[marc37]

got to work,when I have time I will post{I also talk a lot about religion with moslims}

 

[oldrooster]

Your friend is full of it, the muslim religion is spawned of satan.....

 

[Devoted to the Lord!]

And what about these claims:

luke 18:18 Jesus says "Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is God"...so he was not god.

If jesus was GOD, why he pray to god before he died? Matthew 27:46 "My god, my god, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Acts 2:24 "God raised jesus' clearly makes jesus distinct from Almighty god.

 

[lucaspa]

I had a conversation with a muslim:

There are several good sites giving biographies of Mohammed. Do a Google search and you will find them. They will take care of a lot of these claims, such as:

He said Mohammed never knew the stories yet they are identical to the Torah and bible, and that mohammed was illiterate and far away from Jews and christians who he could have heard the stories from.

One of Mohammed's close relatives was Jewish, and he traded with Jews. He was intimately familiar with the Torah.

Now, the major claim to the authenticity of the Quran is that Mohammed was barely literate adn the Quran is written in a very scholarly, flowery language that Mohammed would not have known. Therefore the claim is that the Quran was dictated to Mohammed directly by God. The counter is that Mohammed had such scholars among his first followers and they ghost-wrote the Quran for Mohammed.

He claims that the bible was changed in the council of 325, the council of Nicea and the council of Aleppo.

Not that I know. Theology was standardized then. Also, there was discussion about what books were to be included in the Bible. At one point there were over 400 gospels around. But only 4 were considered inspired to be included in the NT.

He said that God sent the plasms of David, the Torah, the bible and now the Qu'ran. The plasms are lost,

The Psalms are lost? Since when?

He said the Qu'ran says another man was crucified in Jesus' place.

He's right. The Quran has a very strange, to us, view of Jesus. According to Islam, God did a magic trick and made another man look like Jesus. This poor guy was the one crucified. The upshot is, of course, that Jesus wasn't resurrected but was never killed. Supposedly Jesus let the disciples believe that he was resurrected. Now, anyone can see the numerous holes in this whole story. I'm not defending it, merely explaining it.

He said the Jews have enclosed themslves and made the creator to the level of the creation as for the christians they have made jesus into a God.

I don't see where he gets the first but, if Jesus was not resurrected, the second follows from the story about Jesus I gave above.

He said that the Torah supports that only Jews shall go to heaven, which goes against God's wishes, and that the Bible has encompansated many false allegations and ideas.

Well, DUH! Of course he is going to say that. This is Islamic belief. Are you asking whether it is accurate? No. I can't see anywhere in the Torah to support the idea that only Jews go to Heaven. Yes, the Jews are God's Chosen People, but that is to witness to the power and glory of Yahweh, not as the only ones to go to heaven.

He said christianity has many odd mysteries like God is one, why make him into a trinity etc.

Trinity comes from early Christians trying to explain the fact of their salvation. What did Jesus have to be in order to have saved them? Jesus needed to be God. Jesus needed to be human. How could that be? The answer is the Trinity. Muslims don't accept that God is one but that He has 3 personas. I don't see why they can't grasp that since everyone has different personas or faces they show people: father, husband, boss, brother, son, etc. All are me but I don't behave identically, or sometimes even similarly, in each of those roles.

 

[Reformationist]

Muslims don't accept that God is one but that He has 3 personas.

Different "personas?" Are you sure "persona" is the word you mean?

Just asking for clarification, not a host of quotes from your various sources.

Thanks,
God bless

 

[Bible2]

"If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

-- Galatians 1:9

 

[lucaspa]

Different "personas?" Are you sure "persona" is the word you mean?

Just asking for clarification, not a host of quotes from your various sources.

Thanks,
God bless

The technical Greek wod is 'hypostases', but the English "personas" comes closer to what the Greek means, I think.

Yes, if our friend gets in a technical discussion with the Muslim, the use of "personas" may get him into trouble. I hope he reads this.

Hey! I only used the quotes so I could share my sources with you. So you would know exactly what I had found and where.

 

[Reformationist]

The technical Greek wod is 'hypostases', but the English "personas" comes closer to what the Greek means, I think.

Isn't "persona" more in keeping with the idea of "roles" rather than in line with the distinct personalities of the Trinity, unified though they may be?

Hey! I only used the quotes so I could share my sources with you. So you would know exactly what I had found and where.

LOL! I know. I wasn't complaining, just trying to save you some time.

God bless

 

[lucaspa]

"If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

-- Galatians 1:9

I wish people would stop using the Bible out of context!
Paul is writing this letter because some Christians were saying that you must also observe all the Laws in order to be right with God. So, Galatians 1:6-10 has nothing to do with other religions, but with internal politics within Christianity. Please don't abuse the Bible by using it to mean something it does not!

It's interesting that Paul thinks is a point of pride that he did not consult with Jesus' disciples. 17-18 "I did not go to anyone for advice, nor did I go to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before me. ... It was three years later that I went to Jerusalem to obtain information from Peter, and I stayed with him for two weeks. I did not see any another apostle except James, teh Lord's brother." Of course, it is those trained by the Jerusalem disciples that are saying Gentile converts must obey the Law! Anyway, that is an aside.

 

[lucaspa]

Isn't "persona" more in keeping with the idea of "roles" rather than in line with the distinct personalities of the Trinity, unified though they may be?

When I took the college course J"esus Christ and his interpreters" (which we students immediately shortened to "JC and the boys"), I was taught that the formulation of Trinity was "3 personas in one ousia". Only later did I run into "hypostases". One analogy of Trinity is the different roles that people play in their lives: father, boss, brother, etc.

 

[Reformationist]

It's interesting that Paul thinks is a point of pride that he did not consult with Jesus' disciples. 17-18 "I did not go to anyone for advice, nor did I go to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before me. ... It was three years later that I went to Jerusalem to obtain information from Peter, and I stayed with him for two weeks. I did not see any another apostle except James, teh Lord's brother." Of course, it is those trained by the Jerusalem disciples that are saying Gentile converts must obey the Law! Anyway, that is an aside.

Maybe he was just relaying that his appointment came from God, as did the other Apostles, so they should consider him an Apostle with the same authority as the others.

God bless

 

[marc37]

god sent his son,there are those who accept him and there are those who deny him.
there is one who has benefit when people deny the son of god{and their saviour}
how can one call christ a prophet when one doesnt believe in his words and deeds?
you call that one a liar.
dont let them put doubt in your heart.

 

[marc37]

some people defend their faith by attacking the faith of another person and like your friend they will come with an arsenal of false information,but the truth doesnt need an arsenal to fight back,it can tip the high cardhouse of lies down to the ground with a few words.

 

[Reformationist]

When I took the college course J"esus Christ and his interpreters" (which we students immediately shortened to "JC and the boys"), I was taught that the formulation of Trinity was "3 personas in one ousia". Only later did I run into "hypostases". One analogy of Trinity is the different roles that people play in their lives: father, boss, brother, etc.

But the Trinity isn't just one single personality acting in three different roles. It is three distinct personalities. It seems like your interpretation of the Trinity doesn't allow for a distinction, other than that of various roles, between the members of the Godhead. Am I just misunderstanding you?

God bless

 

[Bible2]

"Not as I will, but as thou wilt."

-- Matthew 26:39

 

[Servant of the Kingdom]

Dear Devoted to the Lord

May your name be a sign of your heart!

First the Bible was defined as the lists of books who were commonly regarded as such by the Tradition. I found it surprising that your muslim friend have a time machine to define a matter which still divides most christians. It also begs the question of which those books were and where they are now, or would have God allowed them to be lost? Just imagine His voice destroyed?

So goes the totally *unbacked* claim that the Bible was distorted. Evidences man. What if I were to say that the Quran was changed around 989 AD by the sages of Cordoba?

I'll add something that has not been taken into consideration yet

My God, my God why have you forsaken me?

Why did Jesus say that? Was He crazy? Testing our faith? On the contrary. This is a quote from a Psalm (those that were supposedly lost some time ago I don't remember where). And a Psalm of victory, and Psalm that describes the sufferings and ultimate glory of our Lord

the Psalm 22 which I know quote

Psa 22:1 <To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.> My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Psa 22:2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

Psa 22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

Psa 22:4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

Psa 22:5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

Psa 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Psa 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

Psa 22:8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

Psa 22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

Psa 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Psa 22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

Psa 22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

Psa 22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

Psa 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

Psa 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

Psa 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. (!)

Psa 22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

Psa 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Psa 22:19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

Psa 22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

Psa 22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

Psa 22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

Psa 22:23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

Psa 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

Psa 22:25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

Psa 22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

Psa 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

Psa 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.

Psa 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

Psa 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

Psa 22:31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

Zo waz Jesus dezpairing?

 

[Carrye]

But the Trinity isn't just one single personality acting in three different roles. It is three distinct personalities. It seems like your interpretation of the Trinity doesn't allow for a distinction, other than that of various roles, between the members of the Godhead. Am I just misunderstanding you?

God bless

I think you are misunderstanding. "Three personas in one ousia" is another way of saying three divine persons in one substance. God is one, though in three. But you knew that.