ExGay Testimony ? Im not sure

[david_x]

Thank you, DMagoh, for proving my point once again -- the Bible on this topic is unclear. Else why would we be citing the same passages for opposite conclusions? Remember, just because the Bible says the earth is at the center of the universe and doesn't move, it doesn't make it so.

The bible is only "unclear" if the spirit is not there to dicern.

 

[TheManeki]

The bible is only "unclear" if the spirit is not there to dicern.

David, please read Jude 1:7 and Ezekiel 16:49. Then tell us why only Jude (and not Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Jeusus, and Paul) says Sodom's sin was "sexual immorality," and please explain how exactly Jude means homosexual acts and not something else.

[bible]Jude 1:7[/bible]
[bible]Ezekiel 16:49[/bible]

 

[david_x]

Ah, the certitude of the young! I remember when I was like that.

David, please turn your discernment on the contradiction between Jude 1:7 and Ezekiel 16:49. Then please tell us why only Jude (and not Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Jeusus, and Paul) says Sodom's sin was "sexual immorality," and please explain how exactly Jude means homosexual acts and not something else. Your brothers and sisters without such a spiritual gift need your help.

Oh well if flattery isn't your gift...

Okay to be unsarcastic now:

Idelness breeds sexual sins, so logically Sodom was probiably guilty of both. (pardon the pun)

 

[TheManeki]

Idelness breeds sexual sins, so logically Sodom was probiably guilty of both. (pardon the pun)

Thank you for that quick answer. You only answered part of my question, however.

Why is it that only Jude talked about "sexual immorality" in Sodom, while Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Jesus (Matthew/Mark/Luke), Paul (Romans), and Peter (2 Peter) did not? To them, Sodom's sin was oppressing and inhospitality to the vulnerable. They never mentioned anything sexual.

Finally, what about Jude's mentioning of "sexual immorality" allow you to infer homosexual acts? What keeps us from using the vagueness of his words to condemn anything from adultery to non-missionary position sex?

It's okay to say you don't know.

 

[david_x]

Why is it that only Jude talked about "sexual immorality" in Sodom, while Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Jesus (Matthew/Mark/Luke), Paul (Romans), and Peter (2 Peter) did not? To them, Sodom's sin was oppressing and inhospitality to the vulnerable. They never mentioned anything sexual.

Well, if the others did not need to bring the fact up, why would they?

Finally, what about Jude's mentioning of "sexual immorality" allow you to infer homosexual acts? What keeps us from using the vagueness of his words to condemn anything from adultery to non-missionary position sex?

Well we aren't addressing those others, so I went with the sexual sin that was on subject.

 

[TheManeki]

Maybe there was no sexual sin for everyone else to bring up?

As for Jude, let's look at his context. Paul mentions how important celibacy is to him in I Corinthians 7:1, and while he allows marriage for those who cannot be celibate, celibacy became a fad. After all, Jesus never married, either, and many people back then expected the Second Coming to be within their lifetimes. If you look at some of the writings of Christians from that time period that were not added to the Bible, celibacy is a very important virtue. (An enlightening read is Bart Ehrlman's Lost Christianities.) Perhaps Jude defined "sexual immorality" as any sex, including married man-woman. We can't tell, because the passage is so vague. If only Jude could have foreseen his writings being used as a swiss-army knife to condemn whatever the condemner wishes to condemn. Then maybe he would have been more specific.

 

[DMagoh]

Thank you, DMagoh, for proving my point once again -- the Bible on this topic is unclear...

It's only unclear for persons who want it to be unclear so they can do what they want to do.

There are numerous verses in the Bible, and the only way to be able to say it is not sin is to reinterpret, twist, make excuses for, make assumptions, and basically see what you want to see. You have to take numerous verses from the Bible and change the way they read, make complicated explanations for them, and/or eliminate them altogether for various reasons:

• One verse is only condemning inhospitality
• One verse is only condemning homosexual rape
• One verse is only condemning uncleanliness
• One verse is only condemning male prostitutes
• One verse is only condemning engaging in homosexual acts during pagan worship
• One verse is only condemning heterosexual men engaging in homosexual acts
• One verse the word homosexual was translated wrong

How many verses have to be manipulated? Basically, if you can read the Bible and justify homosexuality, then you have the ability to justify ANY sin you want to.

You need to personally get to know some people like CT and Uber in your area -- in other words, study God's book of Creation -- and that will settle things for you.

I know people like CT and Uber. I use to be a practicing homosexual, and I use to try to justify my actions. Six years ago I experienced life change, where the blinders were lifted and I could see my sin for what it was, and not what I wanted it to be. I pray that others have their eyes opened as well. There is a reason that Satan is called the great deceiver.

 

[TheManeki]

You remind me of my friend Jeff when he first stopped drinking and joined AA -- he was all for getting alcohol totally banned. He told me that part of his zeal was that he knew how alcohol could mess people up, but mainly he wanted to ban it because then he wouldn't have to deal with the constant temptation.

Ten years later, Jeff is still clean, and he's no longer campaigning for a return to prohibition. He's relized that while he can't be trusted around alcohol anymore, that isn't true for everybody else, and that alcohol can pose health benefits when consumed moderately. He's no longer interested in playing Morality Police.

DMagoh, I'm glad you found a happy medium for yourself. But just because you had troubles with it and your beliefs doesn't mean that it is true for everybody -- examples would be CT and Uber. Don't play Morality Police.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

It's only unclear for persons who want it to be unclear so they can do what they want to do.

There are numerous verses in the Bible, and the only way to be able to say it is not sin is to reinterpret, twist, make excuses for, make assumptions, and basically see what you want to see. You have to take numerous verses from the Bible and change the way they read, make complicated explanations for them, and/or eliminate them altogether for various reasons:

• One verse is only condemning inhospitality
• One verse is only condemning homosexual rape
• One verse is only condemning uncleanliness
• One verse is only condemning male prostitutes
• One verse is only condemning engaging in homosexual acts during pagan worship
• One verse is only condemning heterosexual men engaging in homosexual acts
• One verse the word homosexual was translated wrong

How many verses have to be manipulated? Basically, if you can read the Bible and justify homosexuality, then you have the ability to justify ANY sin you want to.





I know people like CT and Uber. I use to be a practicing homosexual, and I use to try to justify my actions. Six years ago I experienced life change, where the blinders were lifted and I could see my sin for what it was, and not what I wanted it to be. I pray that others have their eyes opened as well. There is a reason that Satan is called the great deceiver.

I think you did not have consecutive years of faithful, monogamous relationship...at least I have not read any statements of yours regarding this.