Executions

[elephunky]

I always wonder about "lawful" executions and capital punishment in general. We do not have it here which may be why I find it hard to wrap my head around it.

Do people see it as moral or ethical? I have heard reports of communities in the US celebrating over how many people have been executed under capital punishment laws. This seems a risky way to carry out justice in my point of view. If you make a mistake and execute an innocent party, you cannot undo it. How is that right? And who decides which crimes are punishable by death?

 

[KitKatMatt]

We have executions in Texas. In fact I don't live far from a prison who carries them out (there are always protesters there, too. Either friends/family of the person being executed or those protesting the act of execution itself).

I am not sure where I stand on it, really. Sometimes I think it should be allowed in extreme cases where a horribly grisly crime was committed, but I am not staunchly committed to that position right now.

And yes, very good point. There have been innocent people who have been executed and then later found to be clear of the crimes they were charged with. And to me it is worse for one innocent person to die than 1000 guilty ones

I don't know if it is ethical or not, but I would have no qualms if it were outlawed in my state or if I got to move to a state that doesn't practice it.

 

[Frenchfrye]

I think that the evidence has to be like video proof or witnessed by cops to be challengeable for execution but if it fits within those,
the OT give clear instructions of what to do in certain crimes

 

[Autumnleaf]

Is killing killers a form of genocide?

 

[jayem]

I'm conflicted about it. On the one hand, human justice is fallible, and death is irrevocable. But on the other hand, some crimes are so enormous that nothing else seems fitting. Suppose Hitler, or Osama Bin Laden had been captured and convicted at trial. What kind of sentence would be appropriate?

 

[Nithavela]

There is no reason for execution besides the human need for bloody revenge for acts they deem heinous. It has been shown that the threat of execution carries no deterring effect, and the amount of those crimes is actually higher where the death penality is used. Innocents can not be revived, just as guilty people can not be redeemed. It such a waste, and pure barbarism.

 

[Jonathan Jarvis]

I think that the evidence has to be like video proof or witnessed by cops to be challengeable for execution but if it fits within those,
the OT give clear instructions of what to do in certain crimes

Like gathering wood on the Sabbath?

 

[keith99]

I always wonder about "lawful" executions and capital punishment in general. We do not have it here which may be why I find it hard to wrap my head around it.

Do people see it as moral or ethical? I have heard reports of communities in the US celebrating over how many people have been executed under capital punishment laws. This seems a risky way to carry out justice in my point of view. If you make a mistake and execute an innocent party, you cannot undo it. How is that right? And who decides which crimes are punishable by death?

Bolding mine.

Which is part of why I seem to have a different view than anyone else regarding this.

The other part is that in particularly vile cases the urge to "get the ****" is the strongest. Actually I'm fine with that, except that it often is so strong people forget about making sure they got the **** who actually did it.

So I favor capital punishment for those who are habitual violent criminals and the habitual part means that they have committed multiple unrelated crimes. In that case the issues of a wrong conviction approach zero. I'd still sleep soundly if I later found out that the last conviction was flawed as there would still be the previous 6 instances.

 

[keith99]

I'm conflicted about it. On the one hand, human justice is fallible, and death is irrevocable. But on the other hand, some crimes are so enormous that nothing else seems fitting. Suppose Hitler, or Osama Bin Laden had been captured and convicted at trial. What kind of sentence would be appropriate?

The problem with executing such is they then become a martyr. Of course the problem with life in prison is that they remain a rallying point for their loyal followers.

That is why it is best if they are tragically caught in a crossfire when being arrested. (Bonus points if anyone knows just who planned that for one of the above, I'm hoping someone else knows my favorite cold hearted and level headed double crosser).

 

[DaisyDay]

I think that the evidence has to be like video proof or witnessed by cops to be challengeable for execution but if it fits within those, the OT give clear instructions of what to do in certain crimes

Cops lie all the time.

 

[Gailerina]

I've always been on the fence about this. I can see what someone sentence to death when a child is killed or someone is a serial killer.

Just inside of me though, I don't know if it is right or wrong. If I was to ever be on a jury I could asked to be dismissed though. I could never make that decision.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Cops lie all the time.

It's a different standard though.

 

[Danny777]

The question re. capital punishment is also a very tough one for me. The possibility of executing an innocent person is obviously a very strong argument against capital punishment as this is a blatant example of injustice. However, when there is a crime committed that no-one is held to account for or the person guilty receives virtually no punishment at all, this is ALSO a form of injustice. This is often overlooked.

I'm not completely sure where the right balance should be found re. punishment, but in UK (and I suspect EU) we are definitely too far near the end of the spectrum where it is very rare that the perpetrator of a crime pays a price that vaguely equates to the distress experienced by the victim.

Someone has already commented that capital punishment does not deter crime at all - I really find this hard to believe. Surely the fear of execution would make people think twice before getting involved in crime? It has to be have some effect! I have a friend who lives in Dubai where it is possible (but unlikely) that a thief would get their hand chopped off - as a result of this, he says it is very rare to find someone stealing...many people are able to leave their doors unlocked etc as the fear of the severe punishment is an effective deterrent. The extreme punishment is virtually never needed because the deterrent is enough... (I'm not suggesting we should do the same here!).

At present, many do not respect the law because effective punishments are virtually non-existent. Crime is usually given a psychological title and the only people who ALWAYS suffer the effects are the victims with a lot of the anguish coming down to the fact that they know the person guilty will receive a slap of the wrist at most.

There is no right answer to all of this - overly extreme punishments are the wrong answer, however, our non-existent punishments are also equally wrong...

 

[Skaloop]

Personally, if I were ever to be in a situation where I would get the death penalty or life in prison, I would choose the death penalty. It seems a lesser penalty than spending the next 40 years or so in jail.

So considering that (a) death is not, to me, as bad as living out ones days in prison, and (b) that there is a not insignificant chance that the person being executed is not actually guilty, I don't personally care for executions.

 

[Paradoxum]

The death penalty is a violation of Human Rights. It is also, if I understand it correctly, in contradiction to the soft law of the United Nations since 2007.

The death penalty doesn't do any good, except perhaps satisfying the blood-lust of revenge (ironic in a 'Christian nation', no?). It costs too much, it kills innocent people, and it gives the state the power to unnecessarily kill citizens. I wonder if it would be the easy way out for some people (Hitler killed himself, so would execution actually be giving him what he preferred?).

Death Penalty and Human Rights Standards | Amnesty International USA

There is no right answer to all of this - overly extreme punishments are the wrong answer, however, our non-existent punishments are also equally wrong...

Mine me asking, are you a Christian?

I don't see too much wrong with our punishments. Some may be too lenient (I don't know which), but some too harsh too. I'd lean towards less harsh punishments. Perhaps it was that hippy Jesus stuff I was taught.

 

[Nithavela]

Someone has already commented that capital punishment does not deter crime at all - I really find this hard to believe. Surely the fear of execution would make people think twice before getting involved in crime? It has to be have some effect! I have a friend who lives in Dubai where it is possible (but unlikely) that a thief would get their hand chopped off - as a result of this, he says it is very rare to find someone stealing...many people are able to leave their doors unlocked etc as the fear of the severe punishment is an effective deterrent. The extreme punishment is virtually never needed because the deterrent is enough... (I'm not suggesting we should do the same here!).

The Death Penalty and Deterrence | Amnesty International USA

 

[keith99]

The question re. capital punishment is also a very tough one for me. The possibility of executing an innocent person is obviously a very strong argument against capital punishment as this is a blatant example of injustice. However, when there is a crime committed that no-one is held to account for or the person guilty receives virtually no punishment at all, this is ALSO a form of injustice. This is often overlooked.

I'm not completely sure where the right balance should be found re. punishment, but in UK (and I suspect EU) we are definitely too far near the end of the spectrum where it is very rare that the perpetrator of a crime pays a price that vaguely equates to the distress experienced by the victim.

Someone has already commented that capital punishment does not deter crime at all - I really find this hard to believe. Surely the fear of execution would make people think twice before getting involved in crime? It has to be have some effect! I have a friend who lives in Dubai where it is possible (but unlikely) that a thief would get their hand chopped off - as a result of this, he says it is very rare to find someone stealing...many people are able to leave their doors unlocked etc as the fear of the severe punishment is an effective deterrent. The extreme punishment is virtually never needed because the deterrent is enough... (I'm not suggesting we should do the same here!).

At present, many do not respect the law because effective punishments are virtually non-existent. Crime is usually given a psychological title and the only people who ALWAYS suffer the effects are the victims with a lot of the anguish coming down to the fact that they know the person guilty will receive a slap of the wrist at most.

There is no right answer to all of this - overly extreme punishments are the wrong answer, however, our non-existent punishments are also equally wrong...

Bolding mine.

The studies I have seen that make the claim do it using a sample of those who committed murder or the type of person who actually commits murder. Duh, it is not a deterrent for those who actually went on to commit the crime. It systematically excludes those most apt to be deterred. Also I have never seen a study that says it is no deterrent at all, just much less effective than would be thought.

All deterrent effect is reduced with any group that fails to think about the consequences of the act.

 

[Danny777]

Mine me asking, are you a Christian?

I don't see too much wrong with our punishments. Some may be too lenient (I don't know which), but some too harsh too. I'd lean towards less harsh punishments. Perhaps it was that hippy Jesus stuff I was taught.

You know I'm a Christian!

It seems your implying I can't be a Christian AND believe in the principle of justice.

If someone were to rob me, I would totally forgive them. I probably would NOT press charges etc... Christ taught that "turning the other cheek" and this should underpin day to day life for the Christian.

However, I also believe that for society to function, there has to be a rule of law that everyone is subject to which acts as a deterrent to wrongdoing and gives recourse to those that WISH to seek human justice. Then it is up to the state to determine what that justice is.

My Christian faith would most likely result in me NOT choosing to seek that justice (via legal recourse) and to forgive, but it is obvious that society as a whole does not apply the teachings of Christ (and won't until He returns) and so without a rule of law, everything would fall apart.

 

[Danny777]

Bolding mine.

The studies I have seen that make the claim do it using a sample of those who committed murder or the type of person who actually commits murder. Duh, it is not a deterrent for those who actually went on to commit the crime. It systematically excludes those most apt to be deterred. Also I have never seen a study that says it is no deterrent at all, just much less effective than would be thought.

All deterrent effect is reduced with any group that fails to think about the consequences of the act.

If you or someone you loved were the victim's of some unspeakable crime, I would be interested in hearing what you thought would be a suitable punishment, if you thought there should be punishment at all?

Let me re-iterate, I'm am NOT saying I am in favour of the death penalty. For me, God is the judge and will judge one day. I'm no better than the murderer in God's eyes. I do not trust earthly justice and wouldn't know how best to arrange it if I was in position to. I'm just interested in how you feel about prevention/punishment of crime given that would rule out the death penalty...

 

[quatona]

I've always been on the fence about this. I can see what someone sentence to death when a child is killed or someone is a serial killer.

Just inside of me though, I don't know if it is right or wrong. If I was to ever be on a jury I could asked to be dismissed though. I could never make that decision.

In my view, violence is a problem. Not a solution.
In cases where we can´t think of a non-violent way of dealing with an issue I would like to see the least violent way to be chosen. Intentionally and planfully killing someone doesn´t seem to fit anywhere into this view.