Examining the '70 weeks' prophecy from Daniel 9

[Brad2009]

Daniel 9:24-27 (NIV)

24 Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy. 25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.


What occured to me today was that instead of trying to combine the 62 weeks and 7 weeks as 69 weeks from the ancient decree to rebuild and restore Jerusalem, the two time periods could be considered as seperate start points to two seperate instances of the coming of the the anointed one, ie. Jesus' first and second coming. BTW, I'm sure this isn't a new interpretation, but I think its correct. Please check it in the Holy Spirit and rebuke me as necessary.

The 62 weeks are fulfilled by Jesus' first coming and the 7 weeks then refers to his second coming. If we consider the taking of Jerusalem by Israel in 1967 to be the start point of the 7 'sevens' that leaves us with an end date of 2016.

Reading the prophecy this way has the added benefit of not needing any mental gymnastics to wrap your mind around it - it seems like a very plain and straightforward explaination.

Thoughts?

 

[Tractor1]

Daniel 9:24-27 (NIV)


The 62 weeks are fulfilled by Jesus' first coming and the 7 weeks then refers to his second coming. If we consider the taking of Jerusalem by Israel in 1967 to be the start point of the 7 'sevens' that leaves us with an end date of 2016.

The seven weeks of years (49 years) and the sixty two weeks of years (434 years) have been literally fulfilled beginning in 445 B.C. when Artaxerxes gave the decree to Nehemiah authorizing the rebuilding of the city (Neh. 2:1-8). I see no evidence to suggest your intepretation has any merit.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I would even go so far as to suggest that at least the first half of the final seven years is complete, described as the 1290 days from the abomination of desolation to the destruction of the city/sanctuary (historically, Josephus indicates it took 1290 days as well) in Daniel 12, Daniel 9.

That the people, city and sanctuary are left desolate/abandoned UNTIL THE END/UNTIL THE CONSUMMATION as Daniel 9 and 11 suggest, followed by a 1335 day (Daniel 12) time of wrath which includes the two witnesses testifying and the "reign" of the devil during which people have to have "patient endurance" until it's over which is why the angel in Daniel 12 says:
Dan 12:12Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 

[Tractor1]

I would even go so far as to suggest that at least the first half of the final seven years is complete,

IMO you go to far.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[Brad2009]

Good response Tracey.

I've been looking around a bit and have no reason to use anything other than the '20th year of Artaxerxes' as a starting point. I'll continue to look around for archeological evidence, if any, for a later date than 445 BC.

If my conjecture is right, however, and the historical dating has been fudged about 49 years, we should see a 'covenant with the many' formed this year - to be broken 3.5 years later. Either way, we'll get to see if there's any merit here pretty quick.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Yeah, good response Tracey! You really stuck it to me and put me in my place! heh heh

 

[Brad2009]

Well, best I can come up with to support my conjecture is setting the end point of the 62 weeks to be the birth of Jesus and fudging the date to ~434 BC for the decree to restore and build Jerusalem and using the average length of counting Jewish years (including Jubilees, etc.) instead of 360 days/year.

Not good, I must say.

 

[Brad2009]

*bump*

After doing a bit more reading on the topic - particularly on the 1st census while Quirinus was 'in charge of' Syria - it may be acceptable to put the year of Jesus' birth to be 11/10 BC. That would give us 62 'sevens' between the 445 BC date and Jesus' birth.

Thus, if my OP speculation is correct, we should see the 'covenant with the many' formed sometime between June 28, 2009 (June 28, 1967, the knesset declared Jerusalem to be unified as the Jewish capital) to the middle of September 2009 (end of Jewish year).

 

[zeke37]

end of jewish year? do you mean biblical Israelie year, or today's jewish calandar...

'cause the biblical end of the year is our Mar19-20 ish...the spring solstace is the first day of the new year...2 weeks before biblical Passover

 

[Brad2009]

I was going by the modern Israelite year, so I guess that expands it out a little - from June 28 to March 19/20, 2010. All I'm saying is that the covenant w/ the many may just be on the horizon, heralding the final 'seven' before Christ Jesus returns.

 

[zeke37]

IMO, the time was shoretened as Christ taught in the Olivette discourse. for the elect's sake...


the answer to how long is given in Rev9.....


when the season is, the wise (in the Word) shall know.

 

[Stryder06]

Now honestly, to understand the 70 weeks, we should really take a look at the entire 2300 day prophecy. It all goes together, depeciting certain events that were to happen during this time, up to the cleansing of the sanctuary.

 

[Brad2009]

I'm familiar with the traditional interpretation, although I've never been comfortable with the 457 BC date since thats when the decree to rebuild the temple went forth. The decree to rebuild Jerusalem wasn't until the 20th year of Artaxerxes, which brings us to 445.

Its all good - all I'm saying is, if we see a 'covenant with the many' with Israel as a principal signator, maybe we should re-examine it a bit. The tetrad of blood moons and 2 solar eclipses in 2014/2015 on the Jewish holidays (sun darkened and moon turned to blood before the day of the Lord) also fits in nicely with the interpretation that I put forth, giving an approximate time to expect Jesus in 2016.

Now, I agree, be diligent don't wait till 2016 to do the Lord's work - I'm not setting an exact date or anything.

 

[Zadok7000]

I'm familiar with the traditional interpretation, although I've never been comfortable with the 457 BC date since thats when the decree to rebuild the temple went forth. The decree to rebuild Jerusalem wasn't until the 20th year of Artaxerxes, which brings us to 445.

None of this matters. Daniel is clear that the end of the 69th week was the Crucifixion.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks...And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off

 

[Gary777]

Actually, i see no reason to divide up the 70 weeks at all. Its one long thing:

24 Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.

"finish transgression", "put an end to sin", "atone for wickedness" "everlasting rightousness", seal up vision and prophecy (that means to fulfill them), "anoint the most holy". This all points to Jesus and it all happened within the last of the 70 weeks.

The nnointing of the most holy, is not pointing the the appearance of the "annointed", but to the annointing of the new testament temple, the church - aa pentacost day. That was the 3.5 years after the cross, the last period of the last week.

25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.'

This is right when the last week begins, the autumn when Jesus was 30 years old, and was annointed by John the Baptist. Thats when he stood forward as the messiah after literally being anointed by God for this ministry. He then starts off the last 7 years of the old convenant - the end.

After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.

This is after the 62 sevens meaning after the 7+ 62 sevens, and it can only be in the last week. The annointed (or literally the messiah) shall be cut off (the word cut off here is the berith of hebrew, the cutting of a new convenant) as it happened on the cross as the blood of Jesus flowed. The messiah at this point had nothing.

The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27

This is the roman people under Nero that destroyed the city about 40 years later. The decree was made by God himself centuries earlier. The reason it is mingled in here, is because the happenings of the last week caused the destruction of Jerusalem 40 years later. IT is part of the "end times" of the jewish covenant and law.

He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.'

This is not pointing to the "ruler" but to the messiah that was to be cut off.

The last week is the "confirming" of the convenant. It is the fulfilment of the convenant God made with abraham and that has followed the jewish people up til this time. The messiah came to fulfill the convenant and be the fulfilment of law and prophecy, it happened by his ministry, the death and resurection, the outputong of the spirit in Jerusalem. He literally fulfilled all of the promises belonging to the convenant. At this point, even the years after the cross, christinity and the gospel was still not a "gentile" thing, it was strictly kept jewish and as a fulfilment of the coming of the messianic kingdom trough the holy spirit as prophecied. It was part of the time that was measured for the jewish people and the city, the 70 weeks.

In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

The messiah Jesus literally, according to all gospel teaching, put and end to the sacrificial system by himself beeing the true sacrifice on the cross, exactly in the middle of the week.

And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

This is the "ruler" that will cause destruction. He will set up the abomination that causes desolation, which was done in the beginning of the segie of Jerusalem, when they broke trough the eastern wall and set up the roman emblem in the holy of holiest.

The "wing of the tempel" is not a very correct tranlation, because the word "tempel" is shikuts that means "filth" and refers to idols etc. The end of the seventy weeks was 3.5 years after the cross, the outporuing f the spirit and after the first church in jerusalem before the gospel went to the gentiles.

The end of judaism as it was in funciont with a tempel and sacrificial system, was literally in ad 70 after the 3.5 year siege and war against Israel.

Btw:
There are many 7 year periods in scripture. Just because the last part of the 70 weeks is sven years, and the middle of it is mentioned, that doestn mean that they HAVE TO BE the same as mentioned in revelation - the 42 months, 1260 days. They are two different periods, but the crucufixtion of the messiash and th final break of the convenatn between God and Israel caused the last 7 year period to happen.

God just happens to operate in 7s a lot! It has a meaning and a signature to it. It ashows that even in those times of string tribulation, God was in control.

(the siege and the war lasted 3.5 years ending in ad70, but right befiore that there was a 3.5 year persecution of the christians and jews, the first in christianity not concidering the happenings in Jerusalem under Saul, in church history. That makes 7 years, a 3.5 persecution, and a 3.5 year tribulation. AS Jesus prophecied, the tribulation would happend within one generation from when he spoke. And as John said in revelation, the visions was "at hand" (meaning all ready started) and the were to be fulfilled within a "short time". It wasnt going to happen all over planet earth, but in the "ghey", the land. Read Youngs literal translation and see what revelation is written for, what its theme is:

"Rev 1:7 Lo, he doth come with the clouds, and see him shall every eye, even those who did pierce him, and wail because of him shall all the tribes of the land. Yes! Amen! "

The book is a judgement (coming in the clouds, a OT reference to God judging the nation) and who will see him and weep? the "tribes of the land" That is a OT reference to the tribes of Israel. The guilt for killing Jesus is laid upon the jewish leaders, not on the romans, as confirmed many times by the apostels in the first 8 chapters of acts.


SHould be enough here to help yall out of your insanity, lol!

 

[Brad2009]

None of this matters. Daniel is clear that the end of the 69th week was the Crucifixion.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks...And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off

25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.

I can see what you're saying. However, I see no reason to prefer setting the end point of the 62 'sevens' at the crucifiction rather than Jesus' birth.

The crucifiction came after the 62 'sevens', on that point we agree yes? The question then becomes, is 'after' necessarily a set end point to prefer of Jesus' birth? My arguement is that Jesus' birth indicates his 'coming' and constitutes the end point and that the crucifiction comes after (30 some-odd years after).

 

[Zadok7000]

25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.

I can see what you're saying. However, I see no reason to prefer setting the end point of the 62 'sevens' at the crucifiction rather than Jesus' birth.

The crucifiction came after the 62 'sevens', on that point we agree yes? The question then becomes, is 'after' necessarily a set end point to prefer of Jesus' birth? My arguement is that Jesus' birth indicates his 'coming' and constitutes the end point and that the crucifiction comes after (30 some-odd years after).

You can't do that because 30 some years later would be another 4+ "weeks", making it 73+ weeks until "Messiah be cut off", rendering the whole prophecy that specified 70 weeks useless. The Hebrew is clear.

 

[Brad2009]

Eh, what I'm saying is that 'until' Messiah be cut off is not included - if it were that would point unambiguously to the crucifiction as the end point of the prophecy. 'After' the 62 weeks could be any amount of time.

In any event, we get to see whether there is any merit to this within a short period of time. I think we can agree that a large scale peace treaty in the middle east has been a very unlikely event (its been attempted and failed at so many times) - and if it happens within a specific time-frame which lines up w/ 7 'sevens' to the 2nd coming of Christ Jesus from the knessets decree on June 28, 1967, maybe then a bit more weight can be given to this interpretation. Otherwise, we can just dismiss it as wishful thinking.

 

[Zadok7000]

Eh, what I'm saying is that 'until' Messiah be cut off is not included - if it were that would point unambiguously to the crucifiction as the end point of the prophecy. 'After' the 62 weeks could be any amount of time.

In any event, we get to see whether there is any merit to this within a short period of time. I think we can agree that a large scale peace treaty in the middle east has been a very unlikely event (its been attempted and failed at so many times) - and if it happens within a specific time-frame which lines up w/ 7 'sevens' to the 2nd coming of Christ Jesus from the knessets decree on June 28, 1967, maybe then a bit more weight can be given to this interpretation. Otherwise, we can just dismiss it as wishful thinking.

With respect, we can dismiss it now as bad math.

 

[Brad2009]

with respect, the math works fine.