Exaggeration

[whatfor]

We had a certain evangelist visit our church twice.
His testimony varied slightly over the two visits.
This was enough to make me question some of it.
I feel telling the truth is essential.

 

[jamadan]

Was Christ being factual when he told the parable of the man who owed his master the equivalent of the national debt and yet refused to forgive one who owed him some pocket change ... or was he exaggerating the amount to make a point?

In fact, one could say that a parable, like all fiction, is a lie that tells the truth.

Let's at least keep the dialogue to intellectual honesty. If you brought this issue up to discuss fiction, then no one would have challenged you on exaggeration, correct?

 

[JimB]

 

[jamadan]

So, when Paul told those in Corinth concerning those causing them trouble that he wishes he could be like them as they are "super apostles", he was lying?

A lie is deception with the intent to deceive. Exaggeration and hyperbole may or may not intend to deceive. That's why we have different words for it.

Do we really need to explain the difference between sarcasm and exaggeration? You and Jim seem to be trying too hard to justify something the Spirit is really convicting you on.

Exaggeration and hyperbole (same thing) is meant to impress and HYPE people or yourself when facts alone aren't enough. That's called manipulation an is akin to witchcraft.

When you exaggerate, you lose people's trust. Those closest to you, who know what really happened, first and foremost. When you're so comfortable telling lies to everyone from the pulpit, how will your wife believe you when you tell her you aren't having an affair?

 

[JimB]

*****

You and Jim seem to be trying too hard to justify something the Spirit is really convicting you on.

*****

You are judging motives and assuming way too much, Jam. I can't speak for Faulty, but I am not trying to justify anything, I am simply stating the truth as I see it. And truth is more than just mere cold facts. Jesus exclusively (see Matt. 13.34) used fictional (i.e., non-factual) parables to convey the truth. Sometimes he used exaggeration / hyperbole / overstatement to convey the truth ... and Jesus was not a liar!! So, why would the Spirit "convict" me/us of that?

 

[Eyesee]

You are judging motives and assuming way too much, Jam. I can't speak for Faulty, but I am not trying to justify anything, I am simply stating the truth as I see it. And truth is more than just mere cold facts. Jesus exclusively (see Matt. 13.34) used fictional (i.e., non-factual) parables to convey the truth. Sometimes he used exaggeration / hyperbole / overstatement to convey the truth ... and Jesus was not a liar!! So, why would the Spirit "convict" me/us of that?

This is getting stranger by the moment.

Jim, what exactly is going on? Whatever you have been doing you've been crying "barrels of tears" over ...

I was told that I shouldn’t use exaggeration in my sermons and that I needed to be more exact in my statements. I told him I knew it and had cried barrels and barrels of tears over it.

So why don't you just clear this up for everyone like I asked you to do several posts back... PLEASE. We're obviously missing something; why don't YOU tell us what it is. You are sitting here watching us go back and forth with absolutely no effort on your part to clarify anything and I'm really starting to wonder why that is...

 

[Tobias]

Exaggeration and hyperbole (same thing) is meant to impress and HYPE people or yourself when facts alone aren't enough. That's called manipulation an is akin to witchcraft.

Equating exaggeration to witchcraft IMO is... a rather extreme exaggeration!

 

[toolmanjantzi]

You are judging motives and assuming way too much, Jam. I can't speak for Faulty, but I am not trying to justify anything, I am simply stating the truth as I see it. And truth is more than just mere cold facts. Jesus exclusively (see Matt. 13.34) used fictional (i.e., non-factual) parables to convey the truth. Sometimes he used exaggeration / hyperbole / overstatement to convey the truth ... and Jesus was not a liar!! So, why would the Spirit "convict" me/us of that?

par·a·ble
/'par?b?l/
Noun
A simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels.
Synonyms
parabola - allegory - simile


Can you explain How the scripture have said a parable was fictional? Especially when God said it?

 

[jamadan]

You are judging motives and assuming way too much, Jam. I can't speak for Faulty, but I am not trying to justify anything, I am simply stating the truth as I see it. And truth is more than just mere cold facts. Jesus exclusively (see Matt. 13.34) used fictional (i.e., non-factual) parables to convey the truth. Sometimes he used exaggeration / hyperbole / overstatement to convey the truth ... and Jesus was not a liar!! So, why would the Spirit "convict" me/us of that?

No one expects stories and illustrations to stick to facts . . . really having a hard time thinking anyone needs this explanation . . . stories are stories and are meant to make a point, not to convey facts. On the other hand, when giving an account of real events, we need to convey facts and not exaggerate.

People who use exaggeration and hyperbole are used car salesman, not men of God.

Again, I think your now trying to justify yourself when in your tears you were closer to the truth by responding to the Spirit's conviction.

 

[Faulty]

Do we really need to explain the difference between sarcasm and exaggeration? You and Jim seem to be trying too hard to justify something the Spirit is really convicting you on.

Exaggeration and hyperbole (same thing) is meant to impress and HYPE people or yourself when facts alone aren't enough. That's called manipulation an is akin to witchcraft.

When you exaggerate, you lose people's trust. Those closest to you, who know what really happened, first and foremost. When you're so comfortable telling lies to everyone from the pulpit, how will your wife believe you when you tell her you aren't having an affair?

I'm not justifying anything. I'm just recognizing differences in deliberate deception and figures of speech.

For example, for Jesus to say it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven is an exaggeration. A camel has gone through the eye of a needle, ummm... never, but rich men have entered heaven. Jesus means its extremely difficult and that becomes understood through his exaggeration.

If I were rearranging my furniture an I told my wife, "wow, that couch weighs a ton", she's not stupid enough to think the couch actually weighs 2,000 pounds, but rather that I found the couch to be quite heavy.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

I'm not justifying anything. I'm just recognizing differences in deliberate deception and figures of speech.

For example, for Jesus to say it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven is an exaggeration. A camel has gone through the eye of a needle, ummm... never, but rich men have entered heaven. Jesus means its extremely difficult and that becomes understood through his exaggeration.

If I were rearranging my furniture an I told my wife, "wow, that couch weighs a ton", she's not stupid enough to think the couch actually weighs 2,000 pounds, but rather that I found the couch to be quite heavy.

But the "eye of the needle" was the name of the gate. That was very narrow. Maybe your both wrong when it comes to scripture, because I do not think God needs to exaggerate.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

But the "eye of the needle" was the name of the gate. That was very narrow. Maybe your both wrong when it comes to scripture, because I do not think God needs to exaggerate.

EVER!!!!

 

[Faulty]

But the "eye of the needle" was the name of the gate. That was very narrow. Maybe your both wrong when it comes to scripture, because I do not think God needs to exaggerate.

Which also isn't the point. One can lie while exaggerating. One can lie while not exaggerating. They are not the same thing.

One can exaggerate without lying. One can exaggerate while lying. They are not the same thing.

If one cannot tell the difference, then don't do it. But if one can tell the difference, good for them.

 

[Faulty]

Perhaps one of you would mind telling me the last time you cut off a hand or ripped out an eye because of your sin, or hated your spouse and children so you could be a disciple.

Perhaps one could explain how 1 Samuel 15:8 tells of Saul utterly destroying all the people of the Amalekites, and yet Saul was killed with the help of an Amalekite, 2 Sam 1:8.

 

[JimB]

Let's at least keep the dialogue to intellectual honesty. If you brought this issue up to discuss fiction, then no one would have challenged you on exaggeration, correct?

Fiction is exaggeration, embellishment--heck, you could even call fiction a lie. My old university English lit professor used to say, "A novel is a lie that tells the truth." Jesus used fiction (some were exaggerated stories) when he used parables to tell the truth.

 

[JimB]

This is getting stranger by the moment.

Jim, what exactly is going on? Whatever you have been doing you've been crying "barrels of tears" over ...



So why don't you just clear this up for everyone like I asked you to do several posts back... PLEASE. We're obviously missing something; why don't YOU tell us what it is. You are sitting here watching us go back and forth with absolutely no effort on your part to clarify anything and I'm really starting to wonder why that is...

And I'm not sure what you are driving at, Eyesee. No one, at least from this computer, is "driving at" anything. This thread is just offering a topic open to discussing the pros and cons of exaggeration. You may be reading too much into it and misjudging my motives.

 

[JimB]

par·a·ble
/'par?b?l/
Noun
A simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels.
Synonyms
parabola - allegory - simile


Can you explain How the scripture have said a parable was fictional? Especially when God said it?

Isn't allegory fiction? I've never read a literal (i.e., factual) allegory and I've read Piers Plowman, The Chronicles of Narnia, Lord of the Rings, Pilgrim's Progress, and watched a lot of Disney DreamWorks projects. All of them were allegories, none of them were literal and I learned truth from each of them. They were parables. Truth is where you find, even in fiction.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

Isn't allegory fiction? I've never read a literal (i.e., factual) allegory and I've read Piers Plowman, The Chronicles of Narnia, Lord of the Rings, Pilgrim's Progress, and watched a lot of Disney DreamWorks projects. All of them were allegories, none of them were literal and I learned truth from each of them. They were parables. Truth is where you find, even in fiction.

Sorry, but that is the synonym of parable. Which is mans view of what a parable is. But I asked you from scripture can you show that God requires a fictitious story to make a point. What you just argued although it may also be true, is the same as me telling everyone the word Love is the same as mans view of love throughout the Bible, but I assure you Gods love is not the same. Love is an action word in most if not all cases in the Bible; not a feeling.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

Isn't allegory fiction? I've never read a literal (i.e., factual) allegory and I've read Piers Plowman, The Chronicles of Narnia, Lord of the Rings, Pilgrim's Progress, and watched a lot of Disney DreamWorks projects. All of them were allegories, none of them were literal and I learned truth from each of them. They were parables. Truth is where you find, even in fiction.

If it were proven that parables are fictional; when would the insanity stop. Does the bible warm the reader every time of a parable? If not, then what part of John 3:16 is real? Is hell real?, is the bible all little stories to make man feel warm and fuzzy?

 

[Yahu]

If it were proven that parables are fictional; when would the insanity stop. Does the bible warm the reader every time of a parable? If not, then what part of John 3:16 is real? Is hell real?, is the bible all little stories to make man feel warm and fuzzy?

The Hebrew language is full of mental pictures. Scripture paints those same types of pictures to get a concept across. One of the reasons is Hebrew is an ancient language that doesn't have the massive vocabulary of a modern language. It required painting word pictures to get the point across. Even the paleo-hebrew that makes up the meanings of the words is derived by the combination of letters to paint a picture for the meaning of the word.

For example, the Hebrew word for knowledge means 'to read scripture'. The paleo-hebrew word picture is to use the 'doorway of the eye to the covenant/cross'. Knowledge actually means in Hebrew 'to read about the covenant in scripture'.

Parables are not fiction but word pictures to get across a point of view. If you don't understand some of the common pictures used, it can cause misunderstandings of the truth being presented. For example, waters in scripture is a picture of people. We are waters. We are made up of water. We are conceived in an exchange of waters. Birth begins at the breaking of the water. The harlot sits on the beast over many waters which are peoples, tribes, nations and tongues. Angels are called 'waters above'. The wicked are equated with the bitter waters of the sea.