Ex Pres Trump calls for protest if arrested

[Landon Caeli]

Normally, I think these campaign laws were created for theft. And usually these laws are used after someone has been caught doing something wrong…. In this case, we have people being paid to investigate Trumps entire life, and document his every move for any potential law violation. Which seems more like harassment, and not something in line with the spirit of the law.

…I know nobody wants to hear this again. But it keeps happening again. These politically motivated offensives should not continue to be supported by anyone with a conscience.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Fact of the matter is that presidential campaign funding is publicly funded. And those who funded his campaign are not the ones complaining. Prosecution is literally the opposite of what they want.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's a metaphorical comment Ana. A reference to the French Revolution and, indirectly, the 6 January event.

OB

Ok...what's the metaphor compaing though?

January 6th and a hypothetical protest?

 

[Ana the Ist]

IIRC, the legal issue is about whether the payment should be considered a "campaign expense" [coming as it did in October 2016, the month before the election, but some 10 years after the alleged affair] and whether and how it was reported by Trump and his entities. There is also the similar 'catch and kill' operation with respect to Karen McDougal.

Didn't Trump fund most of his campaign himself?

 

[Occams Barber]

Ok...what's the metaphor compaing though?

January 6th and a hypothetical protest?

This is what I said;

Will Trump supporters be storming the barricades on Tuesday??? - OB

It's another way of asking;

"Will Trump supporters take violent action in support of Trump"​

​

OB

 

[essentialsaltes]

In this case, I’m struggling to understand whether Trump violated the *reason* that the law was passed.

If this goes to trial, we'll find out!

 

[iluvatar5150]

What's the difference between hush money and a settlement with a NDA?

Would it be wrong if it was a campaign expense? I don’t understand the logic or morality of why it would be considered wrong.

Surely we’re not going to prosecute someone for crimes against ink and paper, where no actual wrong was done to anyone or anything. Are we?

I think laws should be passed for a *reason* though, and usually they are.

In this case, I’m struggling to understand whether Trump violated the *reason* that the law was passed. And if not, and we still support prosecution anyways, aren’t we lacking compassion?

Normally, I think these campaign laws were created for theft.

As I understand it, the law in question is not about theft, but about disclosure, so we know who is giving money to campaigns and how much they are giving. Trump paid money to be used in support of a campaign without declaring it as a contribution to the campaign.

Didn't Trump fund most of his campaign himself?

Some of it, but far from "most of" it.

Figures show Trump spent $66 million of his own cash on election campaign

U.S. President-elect Donald Trump pumped a total of $66 million of his own money into his campaign - far from the $100 million he frequently boasted he was going to spend, according to campaign finance disclosures filed on Thursday night.

www.reuters.com

 

[Occams Barber]

I think laws should be passed for a *reason* though, and usually they are.

In this case, I’m struggling to understand whether Trump violated the *reason* that the law was passed. And if not, and we still support prosecution anyways, aren’t we lacking compassion?

Perhaps you should hold off on your concerns until we know what law was (allegedly) broken?

OB

 

[Ana the Ist]

Normally, I think these campaign laws were created for theft. And usually these laws are used after someone has been caught doing something wrong…. In this case, we have people being paid to investigate Trumps entire life, and document his every move for any potential law violation. Which seems more like harassment, and not something in line with the spirit of the law.

…I know nobody wants to hear this again. But it keeps happening again. These politically motivated offensives should not continue to be supported by anyone with a conscience.

Yeah, we're at a point where it's hard for anyone to reasonably conclude we're doing anything except watching the politicians go after a man to prevent him from running for office.

 

[Ana the Ist]

As I understand it, the law in question is not about theft, but about disclosure, so we know who is giving money to campaigns and how much they are giving. Trump paid money to be used in support of a campaign without declaring it as a contribution to the campaign.

This has nothing to do with the NDA?

Some of it, but far from "most of" it.

Figures show Trump spent $66 million of his own cash on election campaign

U.S. President-elect Donald Trump pumped a total of $66 million of his own money into his campaign - far from the $100 million he frequently boasted he was going to spend, according to campaign finance disclosures filed on Thursday night.

www.reuters.com

Right but that's the issue here? He donated his own money to the campaign and didn't declare it?

 

[SimplyMe]

Would it be wrong if it was a campaign expense? I don’t understand the logic or morality of why it would be considered wrong.

Surely we’re not going to prosecute someone for crimes against ink and paper, where no actual wrong was done to anyone or anything. Are we?

It is somewhat complex but, ignoring the part played by the Enquirer (that was passing information of women coming forward to publish stories about their affairs with Donald Trump), the key part is that Trump's Lawyer, Micheal Cohen, paid money from his own pocket in October of 2016 to Stormy Daniels to prevent her from publishing her story. Because they money came from Cohen's own funds, it is considered an illegal campaign contribution (well over the $2,700 limit for individuals to donate to a campaign). Micheal Cohen pled guilty to this crime, as well as others, while Trump was still President.

 

[iluvatar5150]

This has nothing to do with the NDA?

Not that I'm aware of, no. AFAIK, NDA's are entirely civil matters except maybe for concerns related to classified/sensitive info.

Right but that's the issue here? He donated his own money to the campaign and didn't declare it?

AFAIK, yes.

 

[SimplyMe]

Didn't Trump fund most of his campaign himself?

No, he didn't. That was a narrative that Trump himself attempted to push, at least early in his campaign (when he took out loans to cover the early spending by his campaign) but his campaign was almost entirely funded by donations.

This has nothing to do with the NDA?



Right but that's the issue here? He donated his own money to the campaign and didn't declare it?

First, not declaring campaign spending is a crime -- even if funded by the candidate. In this case, though, it was Cohen who paid the money to Stormy Daniel's lawyer, not Trump. While Trump did eventually pay Cohen back, the fact that Cohen paid it initially and was only paid back in 2017 makes it an illegal and unreported campaign "loan."

Assuming something happens Tuesday, I'll be interested in exactly what the charges are.

 

[USincognito]

Would it be wrong if it was a campaign expense? I don’t understand the logic or morality of why it would be considered wrong.

Yes. Campaign money is supposed to go for campaign activities. It's not supposed to be laundered through one's lawyer in order to pay hush money to an adult entertainment actress with whom one had a sweaty interlude.

 

[USincognito]

Fact of the matter is that presidential campaign funding is publicly funded.

I'm increasingly of the opinion that would be better than the current system, but you're using the phrase "publicly funded" incorrectly. Publicly funded means paid for by taxes or fees - usually through the government. It doesn't mean funded by "the public", as in donating directly to a cause or campaign.

 

[Ana the Ist]

This is what I said;

It's another way of asking;

"Will Trump supporters take violent action in support of Trump"​

​

OB

Ok....seems unlikely.

The more interesting question would be...

"Will Trump protesters continue to be described in the politically motivated, hypocritical, hyperbolic, double standard that has been used to describe them in the past?"

Because I don't know if you know this...but actual terrorist organizations like Antifa have been firebombing police facilities. Despite the 100+ terrorists present at that incident, I've yet to hear stories of the FBI identifying those present in a national manhunt and kicking in their doors to arrest them.

Maybe I'm just being cynical and they'll get around to hunting down these actual violent domestic terrorists once they get done kicking down the doors of pro-life protesters who were allegedly "shoving" people outside abortion clinics.

Acquitted pro-life activist Mark Houck reveals details of ‘reckless’ FBI raid; will press charges

The father of seven said he opened the door of his house to a team of FBI agents pointing M-16s at him.

www.google.com

That, or the FBI is being used by a corrupt administration foe purely political ends and we shouldn't trust them or take seriously their claims of the threat of political violence when they literally have called for political violence....(Maxine Waters comes to mind) and have allowed the intimidation of public officials (the BLM mob surrounding the DA in the Breonna Taylor case and yelling "burn it down" outside his home).

In summary, stoking fears of violent protest should be considered clown-like and mocked until this corrupt administration and party starts holding left wing protesters to the same standard.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Yeah, we're at a point where it's hard for anyone to reasonably conclude we're doing anything except watching the politicians go after a man to prevent him from running for office.

idk... Granted, I'm not a political strategist, but I would think that having Trump in the race would be a net benefit for Democrats. From what I understand, nasty primary fights tend to disadvantage a party once they get to the general election. Trump lost two popular votes in a row and arguably weighed down the Republicans in 2022. I'm not confident that the impeachments or any potential prosecutions help Dem chances in an election more than they would make Dems look petty and turn Trump into a martyr, whereas I suspect letting Trump act like a clown and dump all over his Republican opponents for the next 2 years would be almost entirely positive.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Fact of the matter is that presidential campaign funding is publicly funded. And those who funded his campaign are not the ones complaining. Prosecution is literally the opposite of what they want.

Well 66 million of his own money isn't exactly anything to sneeze at....

I'm still not sure what the argument though, or what exactly he's accused of.

What I do know is that there's no clearer sign that they won't be charging him with anything related to January 6th or his mishandling of classified documents than charging him with "hey you filed the wrong form" or "once you say you're going to spend your money on this, you can't turn around and use your money on that"....or whatever this allegation is.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I'm still not sure what the argument though, or what exactly he's accused of.

Allegedly, his hush money payment was made to support/bolster his presidential campaign, which makes it a campaign contribution. Campaign contributions have to be reported, which this wasn't.

Campaign finance stuff has always struck me as a category of offenses that garner more attention and harsher punishments than I would've otherwise expected. He'd hardly be the first politician to get prosecuted for something like this. Here’s another thread about a different pol getting busted for something similar:

Tennessee State Senator Brian Kelsey not seeking re-election

@BrianKelsey I will not be running for reelection due to a recent, exciting change to my personal life, and I look forward to spending more time with my family. @FoxNews Senator Brian Kelsey not seeking re-election, faces charges for campaign finance violation

www.christianforums.com

What I do know is that there's no clearer sign that they won't be charging him with anything related to January 6th or his mishandling of classified documents than charging him with "hey you filed the wrong form" or "once you say you're going to spend your money on this, you can't turn around and use your money on that"....or whatever this allegation is.

Aren't there multiple independent prosecutors exploring options for charging him? idk why campaign finance charges would preclude anybody going after him for anything related to Jan 6.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Yes. Campaign money is supposed to go for campaign activities. It's not supposed to be laundered through your lawyer in order to pay hush money to an adult entertainment actress with whom you had a sweaty interlude.

Campaign money is given to help “win” the election. Hushing up someone who likes to gossip helps with the winning, and that’s not immoral, at all. It’s not wrong in any way.