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Evolution's Brick Wall

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expos4ever

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I prefer God's word. He guarantees it is 100% right all the time. Science cannot and never will be able to do that.
This seems like an odd, and highly suspect criterion for establishing truth - determine the truthfulness of a claim by an accompanying confidence measure provided, naturally enough, by the person with the vested interest in having you believe the claim.
 
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mark kennedy

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Alleles are variations of genes, not traits.
It still represents a trait, why do you guys constantly correct things that are not errors. Alleles are usually the two heterozygous pairs of genes, one dominant the other recessive which represent the vast majority divergent traits in living systems
There can also be an alternate variation based on mutations but it is extremely rare for a mutation to result in an adaptive trait. I refer to traits as allele for the same reason Mendel would have initially only been able to track external traits. Genetics wasnt considered a true science until the 1950s with the unveiling of the DNA double helix model. Then the molecular cause and the external trait (allele) were vitally reconciled by demonstrated triplet codons of the protein coding genes.
 
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inquiring mind

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Ah the familiar "go look up the evidence to make my case for me" line.

I suspect the reality is that few, if any, reputable experts see things the way you have characterized.

But, please, prove me wrong.

Ah the “No, I don’t want to look anything up, I already have an opinion anyway” response. So, I’ll just goad you into providing some more talking points that I can pick apart without putting any thought in it. Not gonna work... try an original response.
 
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sfs

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Well I'm not the one who brought up Mendel, I said Mendelian genetics.
Right -- Mendelian genetics, the genetics discovered by Mendel.
But even at that you only have a certain number of traits,
Mendelian genetics applies to a limited number of traits, only in the absence of linkage, epistasis, pleiotropy, and mutation. It's a useful approximation for some traits, the ones known as "Mendelian traits". It's completely wrong as a general description of genetics, which is your claim about it limiting species change is simply baffling to a geneticist. "What on earth are you talking about?" is the most appropriate response.
 
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expos4ever

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Ah the “No, I don’t want to look anything up, I already have an opinion anyway” response. So, I’ll just goad you into providing some more talking points that I can pick apart without putting any thought in it. Not gonna work... try an original response.
You made a claim. To wit:

Some scientists say (don’t ask me to quote anything, it’s there, look for yourself :)) that our family tree is more like a huge bush, with so many branches that lead to dead ends (not enough transition fossils found to seal the deal -- a brick wall) that it may be impossible to ever fill the gap and find a verifiable route from ape to the modern man.

Name one such scientist, please.
 
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AirPo

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expos4ever

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You know how to google... don't you?
This should be against the rules, along with goading. The burden of proof is always on the person making the claim.

In other words, you.

You have been caught - you made up a claim that “some” scientists believe something.

And now you can’t name one such scientist. And if you do, rest assured that I will investigate the “qualifications” of such a person.
 
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inquiring mind

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This should be against the rules, along with goading. The burden of proof is always on the person making the claim.

In other words, you.

You have been caught - you made up a claim that “some” scientists believe something.

And now you can’t name one such scientist. And if you do, rest assured that I will investigate the “qualifications” of such a person.

And you can't google.
 
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expos4ever

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And you can't google.
Ok, my turn. There are 30-foot tall three-headed women living in the Amazon river valley. But don’t ask me to support my claim, you can google it yourself.

Wow, that was easy.

Now then: please stop evading. Support your claim by giving us names.
 
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doubtingmerle

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You're an atheist on a CHRISTIAN forum... seriously?
Some of us think our ideas are good enough to come out winners, even when we don't have the home team advantage.
 
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Heissonear

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Some scientists say (don’t ask me to quote anything, it’s there, look for yourself :)) that our family tree is more like a huge bush, with so many branches that lead to dead ends (not enough transition fossils found to seal the deal -- a brick wall) that it may be impossible to ever fill the gap and find a verifiable route from ape to the modern man.

I have often times found myself thinking “man, there appears to be a lot of evidence there, presented by knowledgeable people”... but it never pans out.

How long will it take for academia's and evolutionists to admit that Creation is the likely option if no such route is found, 100 years, 200 years, 500 years, never?
Inquiring, you are quite right evolutionists are not facing up to what real proof they have that evolution has occurred on Earth.

Look at the below illustration, and ask others posting here for one sequence of fossils that morphologically present one shown creature changing into the other claimed creature.

What you will get is conjecture.

And you will get macro-assemblages sequences said to represent evolution.

For example, like a creature with a fin where said fin turns to a boney fin and then turns into an arm, etc, but without fossils (fossil evidence) showing such inbetween morphological changes. They will present fossils with large gaps between them = macro-assemblages. Conjecture-based fossil mix and match, as the below shows.

Screenshot_20180414-154206.jpg


In what is presented above, there happens to be zero fossil sequences showing the morphological changes from one of the primative species into one of the more advanced species.

There is zero fossil record evidence that evolution ever occurred.

But most natural scientists never face up to this. Rather most speculate and base discussion on conjecture.
 
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Heissonear

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This should be against the rules, along with goading. The burden of proof is always on the person making the claim.

In other words, you.

You have been caught - you made up a claim that “some” scientists believe something.

And now you can’t name one such scientist. And if you do, rest assured that I will investigate the “qualifications” of such a person.
You speak fast and overlook much.

This post is about evolution.

The fossil record shows evolution never happened once.

It takes an education, possibly, to understand this.

Jumping on a grand-groupthink of errant natural science is not the best thing to do - follow the masses in what they say.

The OP'er has an inquiring mind not a follow the pack mind.

How about you? How did you toss the Creator aside to follow Naturalism and Scientism?

As your forum-title suggests, you are exposed.

Now, will you face up or will tread in conjecture without observational evidence before us?
 
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Heissonear

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Which means it's a scam.


It's not supposed to.
You have in hand Naturalism and Scientism.

You have acquired such through making science an idol.

Science has become an idol within many in our day and age.

Seeking truth and having grand admiration for and by science is exhibition of making science an idol within a person.

The First Commandment still stands.

God is waiting for each and everyone to toss their idols and sinful ways aside. Only then can they carry their cross to follow Him.

It was when, as a Naturalist, I tossed such things aside before Him that He then allowed me to be born again through His Holy Spirit. And His written Word, the Bible, part by part became alive within me - His writing His Word on tablets of human hearts.

Many are missing the Most High because of belief in conjecture-based theories and by continuing to walk in the corruption in this world.
 
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expos4ever

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You speak fast and overlook much.

This post is about evolution.

The fossil record shows evolution never happened once.

It takes an education, possibly, to understand this.

Jumping on a grand-groupthink of errant natural science is not the best thing to do - follow the masses in what they say.

The OP'er has an inquiring mind not a follow the pack mind.

How about you? How did you toss the Creator aside to follow Naturalism and Scientism?

As your forum-title suggests, you are exposed.

Now, will you face up or will tread in conjecture without observational evidence before us?
So I take it you can’t name a reputable scientist either who holds the position expressed in the OP?

The science on this is settled, so you really have no choice but to engage in conspiracy thinking and cast vague, albeit relatively mild, aspersions on those of us whose only crime is to accept the findings of mainstream science.
 
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expos4ever

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....You have acquired such through making science an idol.
.....
Science has become an idol within many in our day and age.
.....
Many are missing the Most High because of belief in conjecture-based theories and by continuing to walk in the corruption in this world.
Nice sermon. Given that the science is overwhelmingly against you on this, the type of moralizing pontification we see in your post is likely your only option.
 
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AV1611VET

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So I take it you can’t name a reputable scientist either who holds the position expressed in the OP?
Emphasis on "reputable scientist," I take it?

Will [the late] Henry Morris qualify?

Let me guess.

He was "just a hydraulics engineer" ... right?
 
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DavidFirth

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This seems like an odd, and highly suspect criterion for establishing truth - determine the truthfulness of a claim by an accompanying confidence measure provided, naturally enough, by the person with the vested interest in having you believe the claim.

Did a Christian really just say that? You don't trust God's word?
 
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AV1611VET

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Nice sermon.
Yes it was.

The Bible speaks of those who follow:

2 Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

In verse 1, it says:

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Can you name me a scientist who denies the LORD?
 
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