Evolution's Brick Wall

[inquiring mind]

It starts to sound more and more, that evidence is the very last thing on your list of important things.

Seems like you are now saying that the bible has it correct, period, no matter what the evidence suggests.

Is that correct?

Yes, the Bible has it correct.

 

[inquiring mind]

And these kinds diversified into the millions of species we see today in 4000 years did they?

I have never tried to establish time frames.

 

[VirOptimus]

Yes, the Bible has it correct.

Dogma is the enemy of truth.

 

[Colter]

1. Why do Creationists erroneously think that fossils are the only evidence we have for evolution?

We don’t. It’s just that it should be the easiest ‘connect-the-dots’ verification, and with all the effort and concentration evolutionists have put into that area of their search, any reasonably thinking person would think their claims would be substantiated by now.

2. How about we try two experiments involving fossils. The first one is a chronological lineup of hominid fossil skulls with a chimpanzee skull in the upper left for reference. Please tell me where you draw the line between "ape" and "human" and why you do so at that point.

You can’t prove (I know you try to avoid this word because it’s not elastic enough) the connection, but you want me to do it, in effect picking the transformation point for you. Sorry, that’s your problem... Creationists know better.

3. For the second one I'd like for you to tell me if it's "ape" or "human" and why you conclude as you do.
View attachment 240478
View attachment 240479

Same answer as for #2.


1. Why do some think that childish mockery is an effective means of discussion?

We don’t. It’s usually just answering ‘in kind.’

2. Science doesn't prove things.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...sconceptions-about-science-i-scientific-proof

Your particular area of science especially.


3. No single fossil or any other piece of evidence is "the one". Scientific theories are built on bodies of evidence, not a single example.

There are corner stones for any solid building.


4. There have been many thousands of transitional fossils discovered over the last 200 years. Each of them received some fanfare at the time of their discovery, others were more muted. It depends on the lead author of the paper and whether they make the discovery more of a public event (with books and TV appearances). From human evolution take AL-288-1 also known as Lucy which is quite famous and has made her discoverer Don Johanson quite famous as well. On the other hand the I have no idea who discovered the even more complete but not quite as famous WT-15000 also known as Turkana Boy.
(edit - I thought it might be Richard Leakey and checking I see it was one of his team members and Leakey is one of the paper authors.)

I don’t see a question here, so I’m not going to further waste my time assuming one.



1. See number 4 above.

Sorry, just don’t see a question there.

2. Tiktaalik was the fossil version of summer blockbuster. Neil Shubin wrote a Best Selling book after the find and in 2014 made a three part documentary for PBS. To act as if this discovery was not a big deal betrays an ignorance of how it was received.

I’m sure you can point to a reference showing complete agreement with his interpretation of the find within the scientific community then?

3. We're making incredible fossil discoveries every year. One of most recent to finally be a blockbuster for the science literate was Little Foot who was unveiled to the public in 2017 after 20 years.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-42250530

Back to fossils again? Even 'your' first question sort of dismissed them as a principal source of reliable evidence. Why should we find it exciting news?

*** Just so you know ahead of time, I'm going to ignore any further barrage of questioning such as this.*** Oh, and have some more fish.

With Genesis, there aren’t even any dots to connect.

 

[Colter]

Ark too small, was it?

Lacking any dots to connect themselves to Adam, they wrote in the flood story.

 

[Jimmy D]

I have never tried to establish time frames.

I don't blame you. It's better just to accept it on faith.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I don't jump thru hoops for you; if you want to read it begin on page 4.

Sorry, no.

Define the terms you are using in your own words. You expect no less from me.
When you asked me to define what I mean by species, I just gave you a definition consisting of 4-5 sentences.

If I would have just pointed you to some long blog post by Dawkins or whatever, you wouldn't have accepted that either.

I see this as an enormously pathetic excuse from you to completely dodge it and run from your responsability.

And now we have already wasted 3 posts each with this back and forward. You could have posted the definition several times by now and we could have moved on.

But, here we are.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yes, the Bible has it correct.

And by that, you off course mean your particular literal interpretation of said Bible, which doesn't even agree with other literal interpretations out there, and which definatly doesn't agree with non-literal interpretations, which actually makes up the majority of christian believers?

So, it is absolutely impossible that your interpretation of this book is incorrect / flawed?

I'm just asking for clarity....

 

[xianghua]

I’m not responsible for your education.

why you cant answer a simple question? can a bacteria evolve into human or not?

 

[pitabread]

why you cant answer a simple question? can a bacteria evolve into human or not?

No. Bacteria are a different domain than humans (Eukaryota). Whatever life in the Bacteria domain may eventually evolve into, it will still be part of the Bacteria lineage.

However Bacteria and Humans can and do share common ancestry though. This likely goes back to some of the earliest life on Earth.

 

[xianghua]

2. Tiktaalik was the fossil version of summer blockbuster. Neil Shubin wrote a Best Selling book after the find and in 2014 made a three part documentary for PBS. To act as if this discovery was not a big deal betrays an ignorance of how it was received.

actually the tiktaalik found to be in the wrong order:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature08623

so again we see something that evolution never predicted.

 

[xianghua]

No. Bacteria are a different domain than humans (Eurkaroyta). Whatever life in the Bacteria domain may eventually evolve into, it will still be part of the Bacteria lineage.

However Bacteria and Humans can and do share common ancestry though.

so if human evolved from bacteria its still be a bacteria?

 

[pitabread]

so if human evolved from bacteria its still a bacteria?

Humans didn't evolve from Bacteria. We are Eukaryotes and share an ancestry going back to the original Eukaryotic life. With which Bacteria would have also shared ancestry with.

 

[AV1611VET]

Lacking any dots to connect themselves to Adam, they wrote in the flood story.

Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 male and female created he them, and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 and the days of Adam after he begat Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters.
5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
6 And Seth lived a hundred and five years, and begat Enosh:
7 and Seth lived after he begat Enosh eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
8 and all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
9 And Enosh lived ninety years, and begat Kenan.
10 and Enosh lived after he begat Kenan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
11 and all the days of Enosh were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
12 And Kenan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalalel:
13 and Kenan lived after he begat Mahalalel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
14 and all the days of Kenan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
15 And Mahalalel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
16 And Mahalalel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
17 and all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
18 And Jared lived a hundred sixty and two years, and begat Enoch:
19 and Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25 And Methuselah lived a hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
26 and Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters.
27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
28 And Lamech lived a hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
29 and he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us in our work and in the toil of our hands, which cometh because of the ground which Jehovah hath cursed.
30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
32 And Noah was five hundred years old: And Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

 

[xianghua]

Humans didn't evolve from Bacteria. We are
Eurkaroytes and share an ancestry going back to the original Eukaryotic life. With which Bacteria would have also shared ancestry with.

but you said that: "Whatever life in the Bacteria domain may eventually evolve into, it will still be part of the Bacteria lineage"-

so bacteria will always be a bacteria no matter what it will evolve into?

 

[pitabread]

but you said that: "Whatever life in the Bacteria domain may eventually evolve into, it will still be part of the Bacteria lineage"-

so bacteria will always be a bacteria no matter what it will evolve into?

Yes, Bacteria are one of the three domains of life. Any descendants in the Bacteria domain will always be considered Bacteria.

 

[xianghua]

Yes, Bacteria are one of the three domains of life. Any descendants in the Bacteria domain will always be considered Bacteria.

so if a human will evolve from a bacteria it will still be a bacteria according to this criteria.

 

[Colter]

Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 male and female created he them, and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 and the days of Adam after he begat Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters.
5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
6 And Seth lived a hundred and five years, and begat Enosh:
7 and Seth lived after he begat Enosh eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
8 and all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
9 And Enosh lived ninety years, and begat Kenan.
10 and Enosh lived after he begat Kenan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
11 and all the days of Enosh were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
12 And Kenan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalalel:
13 and Kenan lived after he begat Mahalalel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
14 and all the days of Kenan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
15 And Mahalalel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
16 And Mahalalel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
17 and all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
18 And Jared lived a hundred sixty and two years, and begat Enoch:
19 and Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25 And Methuselah lived a hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
26 and Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters.
27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
28 And Lamech lived a hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
29 and he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us in our work and in the toil of our hands, which cometh because of the ground which Jehovah hath cursed.
30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
32 And Noah was five hundred years old: And Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

The Israelites had a long history of rewriting, restating and exaggerating their past. They were just human like the rest of us. So, your list is based on unreliable sources. Its "fake news".


Example of errors within the rewriting about the same events. There are many but Bible worshipers are not honest, refuse to aknowlege and I would rather do something else during my lunch break.

How many fighting men were found in Israel ?



8th century B.C.
2 Samuel 24:9 (KJVA)

9And Jo´ab gave up the sum of the number of the people unto the king: and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the sword; and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.


400-250 B.C.
1 Chronicles 21:5 (KJVA)

And Jo´ab gave the sum of the number of the people unto David. And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and a hundred thousand men that drew sword: and Judah was four hundred threescore and ten thousand men that drew sword.


When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

After (2 Samuel 5 and 6) 8th century B.C.

Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14) 400-250 B.C

 

[pitabread]

so if a human will evolve from a bacteria it will still be a bacteria according to this criteria.

Humans have already evolved in the Eukaryota lineage. Any descendants in the Bacteria lineage would be something else, not humans. The exact same species would not evolve twice.

 

[inquiring mind]

actually the tiktaalik found to be in the wrong order:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature08623

so again we see something that evolution never predicted.

Well, well, well... Thank you xianghua, it looks as though we were right in ignoring these guy's TicTac comments after all. Now we know it was nonsense.