Evolutionists: answer me this.

[Loudmouth]

I'm just asking you to explain away the origin of life without a divine force.

How do you explain the origin of life WITH a divine force? Answering a mystery with a larger mystery is not an explanation.

If we go back 2,000 years and limit ourselves to their understanding of the natural world how could we explain lightning without a divine force?

 

[SimilSimon]

2,000 years ago science did not have an explanation for lightning. What did they do? They went beyond science and stated that Thor or Zeus did it. This is called a God of the Gaps argument, and it's a rather poor argument to make. In effect, you are saying that the best place to find your god is in human ignorance.

Occums Razor > God of the Gaps


2000 years ago what was more believable to the ignorant people:

1: There are hundreds of INVISIBLE TO THE EYE particles, which move around everywhere and move very quickly in the air which creates a bright light and noise, for what reason? Because of pressure or whatever. For what reason?> because of the convection currents in the earth. For what reason? Infinite regress into absolute impossible nothingness.

2: A being similar to yourself but far more powerful and beyond your understanding caused it in rage. as you identify such a noise and light with rage. At least in this explanation there is a meaning behind it.

I vouch with two, if i'm an ignorant native.

 

[Loudmouth]

Occums Razor > God of the Gaps

Then the best answer is abiogenesis being that organic molecules required for life are produced by natural mechanisms.

2000 years ago what was more believable to the ignorant people:

1: There are hundreds of INVISIBLE TO THE EYE particles, which move around everywhere and move very quickly in the air which creates a bright light and noise, for what reason? Because of pressure or whatever. For what reason?> because of the convection currents in the earth. For what reason? Infinite regress into absolute impossible nothingness.

2: A being similar to yourself but far more powerful and beyond your understanding caused it in rage. as you identify such a noise and light with rage. At least in this explanation there is a meaning behind it.

I vouch with two, if i'm an ignorant native.

Which one is right? If we judge explanations by "meaning" then we will often choose the wrong explanation.

Is it profitable to evidence your god by things that can not be explained? I would think not because your god disappears once a natural cause is found.

 

[SimilSimon]

Then the best answer is abiogenesis being that organic molecules required for life are produced by natural mechanisms.

No. How is it?

You're telling me that is simpler and more common sense based than a god?

Is it profitable to evidence your god by things that can not be explained? I would think not because your god disappears once a natural cause is found.

You have an immensely shallow view of God. Correct me if I'm wrong, but here is your line of thinking of God:

You think God Is a big dude [not literally] seperate from the universe entirely, and who poked it into being from "some other place" christians murmur and trail off about.

Yes that is an absurd notion of God. But when you say:

I would think not because your god disappears once a natural cause is found.

You're really slipping up. Nature and god aren't independant causes. Like oh if nature explains it, it CAN'T be God. Your still thinking of God as a seperate entity.

God is nature. God is the cause, God is the effect, all creatures under heaven are a product of God, who is a product of being, which itself is a product of non-being, which is absolute and infinite, which, finally, is God.

^ That is God. and suddenly something as petty as nature and life, you realise doesn't need a Jesus H Christ stamp and guarantee to prove him. it itself is. And being is the product of non being, and this inifnity of existence and reality, is alla culmination of God. God is.

 

[Loudmouth]

No. How is it?

You're telling me that is simpler and more common sense based than a god?

Occam's Razor states that the explanation with the fewest assumed entities is usually the right one.

In this case, we see nucleotides, amino acids, and sugars forming as the product of abiotic (i.e. "without life") processes. We do not see a deity forming the building blocks of life anywhere. Therefore, supernatural origins requires more assumed entities than abiogenesis.

You have an immensely shallow view of God. Correct me if I'm wrong, but here is your line of thinking of God:

You think God Is a big dude [not literally] seperate from the universe entirely, and who poked it into being from "some other place" christians murmur and trail off about.

Yes that is an absurd notion of God. But when you say:

You're really slipping up. Nature and god aren't independant causes. Like oh if nature explains it, it CAN'T be God. Your still thinking of God as a seperate entity.

God is nature. God is the cause, God is the effect, all creatures under heaven are a product of God, who is a product of being, which itself is a product of non-being, which is absolute and infinite, which, finally, is God.

What you are describing is closer to Pantheism than Christianity.

^ That is God. and suddenly something as petty as nature and life, you realise doesn't need a Jesus H Christ stamp and guarantee to prove him. it itself is. And being is the product of non being, and this inifnity of existence and reality, is alla culmination of God. God is.

What about Occam's Razor? Why add another entity (God) when nature is all you need?

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

I just thought I would point out the reason why evolution is not taught in all fifty states, is to satisfy people like SimilSimon.

Please allow me to convince you evolution has happened.
You see the church was wrong about the Sun going around the Earth, then Gailileo and Copernicus made it clear this is not the case. Everyone had to realize the church was wrong about that. With the story of Genesis, we have the same thing, once again the church was wrong about the whole human race being created from two people. We are not separate from the natural process of evolution, evolution has occured in humans. You can look at human DNA and see it is 98% similar to the chimpanzee. There is an extensive fossil record that really shows scientists a lot of evidence that evolution has occured.

Take a biology class if you don't believe me, right from your own community college. You'll learn so much about it, and see that humans are part of this whole world of nature, we are not separate at all. Give it a shot you'll like it.

 

[SimilSimon]

I just thought I would point out the reason why evolution is not taught in all fifty states, is to satisfy people like SimilSimon.

Please allow me to convince you evolution has happened.
You see the church was wrong about the Sun going around the Earth, then Gailileo and Copernicus made it clear this is not the case. Everyone had to realize the church was wrong about that. With the story of Genesis, we have the same thing, once again the church was wrong about the whole human race being created from two people. We are not separate from the natural process of evolution, evolution has occured in humans. You can look at human DNA and see it is 98% similar to the chimpanzee. There is an extensive fossil record that really shows scientists a lot of evidence that evolution has occured.

Take a biology class if you don't believe me, right from your own community college. You'll learn so much about it, and see that humans are part of this whole world of nature, we are not separate at all. Give it a shot you'll like it.

Read the thread.

 

[TheOutsider]

God is nature. God is the cause, God is the effect, all creatures under heaven are a product of God, who is a product of being, which itself is a product of non-being, which is absolute and infinite, which, finally, is God.

Hmm... That sounds very much like Christian Pantheism. I didn't know such a thing was possible.

 

[Willtor]

You misunderstood me friend.

I'm a convert. You got me, evolution makes sense.

I'm just asking you to explain away the origin of life without a divine force.

If God is the source of nature and the First Cause, then why the need to argue against evolution and abiogenesis?

 

[plindboe]

Sorry guys.

SO I was wrong about gills. Evolution wins again huh.

But Evolutionists, answer me this:

Where did the process start? Never in our world has it been observed of life being spontaneously created, it is always the product of other life in one form or another, hence where did the chain of evolution begin?

This applies on equal measure to cosmology as a whole; take this, for instance. I assume you are all familiar with the cosmological argument, and exactly the same applies to evolution. As far as our empirical evidence tells us, one thing is Always caused by another, so we have no reason to doubt that maybe this causation goes on forever, infinity if you will.

However, science has proven with cone theory etc that this is not the case. Whatever we observe to be the case now does not apply to the beginning of time surely. the logical explanation?

A little guy called Jesus H Christ.

This applies to evolution also, as we know scientifically, that life is not an infinite. it must have started somewhere. but science fails there. something BEYOND science cause life.

And this is a little guy I call Jesus.

Boy, am I embarrased, but whats a Poe guys?

You're basically saying "I don't know, therefore X is the solution". If you admit you don't know, then that's it. You can't conclude something based on not knowing.

What's so wrong about shrugging and admitting that you don't know? Why do you have the need to fill gaps in your knowledge with whatever you wish to be true?

Peter

 

[Riddick]

Poe is Poe with a Poe.

Poe?

Either way, I just submitted it to FSTDT.

i think wings would make good sense. how come none of us have wings to flap on over to the 7-11? is it because they stopped selling certain magazines?

how you like winace's quote in my sig?

 

[Willtor]

i think wings would make good sense. how come none of us have wings to flap on over to the 7-11? is it because they stopped selling certain magazines?

how you like winace's quote in my sig?

Hey, yeah! Like in X-Men, right? Also, why can't any of us bend metal with our minds? The more I think about it, the less evolution does for me.

Mmmmm... wings.

 

[Vene]

Hey, yeah! Like in X-Men, right? Also, why can't any of us bend metal with our minds? The more I think about it, the less evolution does for me.

Mmmmm... wings.

Forget about wings, I want rockets. If we're going to do fantasy might as well go all the way into it.

 

[Willtor]

Forget about wings, I want rockets. If we're going to do fantasy might as well go all the way into it.

You can _have_ rockets if you just work out enough. Don't you read Dr. McNinja? Unfortunately, if you work out enough to develop a biological rocket pack, you also go insane. Work out responsibly. Think of the children.

 

[Vene]

You can _have_ rockets if you just work out enough. Don't you read Dr. McNinja? Unfortunately, if you work out enough to develop a biological rocket pack, you also go insane. Work out responsibly. Think of the children.

I may have to start reading that (as if I don't have enough webcomics bookmarked already, oh well, what's one more). Sanity is for the week. (pun intended)

 

[Chalnoth]

Where did the process start? Never in our world has it been observed of life being spontaneously created, it is always the product of other life in one form or another, hence where did the chain of evolution begin?

Here's the thing. The time frame for abiogenesis on Earth is a few hundred million years. Do you honestly think that it's remotely likely that we could replicate a process that could have taken hundreds of millions of years in a laboratory in under a century?

That said, evolution requires only one thing: replication. And we have found a number of quite simple self-replicating molecules (typically proteins or RNA). From what we understand today about chemistry and the conditions on the early Earth, the evidence appears to be that the formation of life was absolutely inevitable.

But more than that, I always wonder why Christians bother to bring this up at all. That life formed naturally would in no way impact any theology. The only aspect of evolution, as near as I can tell, that would impact theology is the fact that humans are cousins of all other life on this planet, and were not specially created, let alone created in the image of a deity. So, is human evolution or is it not the crux of the issue?

This applies on equal measure to cosmology as a whole; take this, for instance. I assume you are all familiar with the cosmological argument, and exactly the same applies to evolution. As far as our empirical evidence tells us, one thing is Always caused by another, so we have no reason to doubt that maybe this causation goes on forever, infinity if you will.

1. This is false. There are events which have no events to cause them. Quantum tunneling events, nuclear decays, and vacuum fluctuations are three examples.
2. I'm a cosmologist, and I'd be happy to answer any questions about the origins of the universe you would care to ask.

 

[KCfromNC]

Never in our world has it been observed of life being spontaneously created, it is always the product of other life in one form or another...

A little guy called Jesus H Christ.

So where did he come from? Your entire argument rests on the fact that life doesn't come from nothing. Surely you'll agree that Jesus is something, namely the living god incarnate. So according to what you said, he had to come from something else - what created Jesus then?

No special pleading here - if you're going to insist that everything must come from something else, you've got to be consistent in this claim.

 

[Riddick]

So where did he come from? Your entire argument rests on the fact that life doesn't come from nothing. Surely you'll agree that Jesus is something, namely the living god incarnate. So according to what you said, he had to come from something else - what created Jesus then?

No special pleading here - if you're going to insist that everything must come from something else, you've got to be consistent in this claim.

don't mind if i do but in here he says "in our world" so it is consistent to that end.

 

[SimilSimon]

God spoke to me today.

I'm out to buy petrol. When I get back I'll post.

 

[godlessagnostic]

God spoke to me today.

I'm out to buy petrol. When I get back I'll post.

Lots of people talk to Jesus, and that's normal. It's not normal when Jesus speaks back to you.