Evolutionists: answer me this.

[TeddyKGB]

wait...that should have no bearing on randomly-mutating gills.

Modern mammal lungs have undergone hundreds of millions of years of development; the genetic foundation is long set and probably rather complex. No set of mutations will occur to randomly produce gills in any generation that you or I will ever be witness to.

 

[RealityCheck]

Modern mammal lungs have undergone hundreds of millions of years of development; the genetic foundation is long set and probably rather complex. No set of mutations will occur to randomly produce gills in any generation that you or I will ever be witness to.

Unless someone bonds with the sandtrout.

(Sorry, been re-reading some classics this month.)

 

[DaisyDay]

Wouldn't breathing in the chlorine in swimming pools be a bad thing, supposing we were to evolve summer gills?

 

[Gracchus]

Some marine turtles have re-evolved gills, although not pharyngeal gills. They have developed the ability to absorb oxygen from sea water through their cloacae.

 

[Chalnoth]

Some marine turtles have re-evolved gills, although not pharyngeal gills. They have developed the ability to absorb oxygen from sea water through their cloacae.

Wow, I did not know that. That is just cool:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/011116.html

The champion in this regard seems to be the recently discovered (1973) Fitzroy River turtle Rheodytes leukops ('white-eyed stream-diver'), which is confined to its namesake river in Queensland, Australia. It lives in shallow rapids where the water is highly oxygenated. One can detect the keen sense of discovery in the account by the scientists who found it, John Legler and John Cann: 'One of our vivid early impressions of Rheodytes was that adults of both sexes swam with a widely gaping cloacal orifice (up to 30mm in diameter). The orifice remains open when individuals are out of the water. We first became aware of the large cloacal bursae when a female was examined in bright sunlight; the carapace transmitted enough light to illuminate the coelomic cavity and produce a spectacular view internally for at least 100mm, via the cloaca, revealing a large sac lined with vascular, villose mucosa. . . . Water is pumped in and out of the bursae of captives and experimental animals at rates of 15 to 60 times per minute' (Legler and Cann 1980). Only dedicated herpetologists could characterize the vista up a turtle's gaping bunghole as a 'spectacular view.' But you can understand their enthusiasm--since the turtle's shell is only 260 millimeters long, a 100-millimeter-long bursa is relatively enormous. Up to 68 percent of the turtle's oxygen uptake is accomplished through the cloacal bursae, so it rarely needs to come to the surface to bask or breathe.

Spectacular view

 

[SimilSimon]

Yeah, but...God...

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Yeah, but...God...

How the hell did you get 2600 reps with only 12 posts?

 

[corvus_corax]

How the hell did you get 2600 reps with only 12 posts?

What?
You haven't seen THESE kinds of threads before?

 

[MrGoodBytes]

What?
You haven't seen THESE kinds of threads before?

 

[corvus_corax]

Yeah, kinda completely destroys the entire point of Reputation, doesn't it?

 

[RealityCheck]

Yeah, but...God...

A stunningly worded rebuttal, to be sure.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

What?
You haven't seen THESE kinds of threads before?

And people wonder why I disabled reps...

 

[Chalnoth]

And people wonder why I disabled reps...

Well, despite the uselessness, we still get a little fuzzy feeling inside when we rep somebody for a good post

 

[llDayo]

If your so called "natural selection" exists, then howcome people don't have gills from using swimming pools regularly?

Because the chlorine would kill us.

 

[llDayo]

Wouldn't breathing in the chlorine in swimming pools be a bad thing, supposing we were to evolve summer gills?

Ah crap, I knew I should have looked through the last page first!

 

[SimilSimon]

Sorry guys.

SO I was wrong about gills. Evolution wins again huh.

But Evolutionists, answer me this:

Where did the process start? Never in our world has it been observed of life being spontaneously created, it is always the product of other life in one form or another, hence where did the chain of evolution begin?

This applies on equal measure to cosmology as a whole; take this, for instance. I assume you are all familiar with the cosmological argument, and exactly the same applies to evolution. As far as our empirical evidence tells us, one thing is Always caused by another, so we have no reason to doubt that maybe this causation goes on forever, infinity if you will.

However, science has proven with cone theory etc that this is not the case. Whatever we observe to be the case now does not apply to the beginning of time surely. the logical explanation?

A little guy called Jesus H Christ.

This applies to evolution also, as we know scientifically, that life is not an infinite. it must have started somewhere. but science fails there. something BEYOND science cause life.

And this is a little guy I call Jesus.

Boy, am I embarrased, but whats a Poe guys?

 

[Vene]

Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

I actually do think that this is Poe. The questions answered here are PRATTs, but I have never seen a creationist accept the arguments before.

 

[SimilSimon]

Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

I actually do think that this is Poe. The questions answered here are PRATTs, but I have never seen a creationist accept the arguments before.

I'm not trying to annoy anyone? When I posted I thought it made sense.

If you don't expect a creationist to change their mind, why argue your case?

Youa ll convinced me.. and because of that you think I am joking. So what was the poiint of arguing to convince me?

It all seems very catch-22.. but you guys probably know best..

I don't think I'm a "poe" :s

 

[Loudmouth]

Where did the process start?

Evolution starts once you have imperfect replicators who compete for limited resources. In such an environment evolution is unavoidable.

Never in our world has it been observed of life being spontaneously created,

Isn't that what you believe in?

Personally, I don't know how life began. However, if life arose through natural mechanisms the most probable route (IMHO) is RNA first due to the fact that RNA can serve as both a genetic molecule and an enzyme. In fact, some of the most basic cellular processes are RNA based.

This applies on equal measure to cosmology as a whole; take this, for instance. I assume you are all familiar with the cosmological argument, and exactly the same applies to evolution. As far as our empirical evidence tells us, one thing is Always caused by another, so we have no reason to doubt that maybe this causation goes on forever, infinity if you will.

This is what many physicists are proposing.

However, science has proven with cone theory etc that this is not the case. Whatever we observe to be the case now does not apply to the beginning of time surely. the logical explanation?

A little guy called Jesus H Christ.

I don't understand this portion. Could you clarify?

This applies to evolution also, as we know scientifically, that life is not an infinite. it must have started somewhere. but science fails there. something BEYOND science cause life.

And this is a little guy I call Jesus.

Evolution starts with the first life so it's a bit unfair to expect a theory to explain something that it is not built to explain. Abiogenesis is the field of study which proposes mechanisms by which life can arise from organic molecules.

2,000 years ago science did not have an explanation for lightning. What did they do? They went beyond science and stated that Thor or Zeus did it. This is called a God of the Gaps argument, and it's a rather poor argument to make. In effect, you are saying that the best place to find your god is in human ignorance.

Boy, am I embarrased, but whats a Poe guys?

Poe's Law (first discovered by Nathan Poe) states that any parody of creationism is indistinguishable from true creationism due to the crazy ideas that creationists spout.

 

[SimilSimon]

You misunderstood me friend.

I'm a convert. You got me, evolution makes sense.

I'm just asking you to explain away the origin of life without a divine force.