Evolutionist Caught Lying for Their Religion- Fossils

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Once again, after you on another post presented which fossils prove evolution, see attached of said fossils. They do not show detailed morphological proof of evolution. ....
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6 September 2018 Heissonear: Once again a stupid demand for arbitrary fossils and lies about the fossil record.
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7 September 2018 Heissonear: An insanely ignorant "where are the inbetween fossils" question.
This is a fossil. Formation of fossils is rare.We have not dug up every square inch of the Earth and so there are fossils we have not found yet. It is insanely ignorant to demand that specific fossils exist today.

The evolution of cetaceans has the morphological evidence of evolution that the fossil record provides up to today as in his graphic :doh:! It is possible that some transitional fossils are still to be found.

An Index to Creationist Claims
CC200 Transitional fossils are lacking.
 
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tas8831

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I asked a simple question for you to prove evolution by the fossil record.

You claim a tremendous science education.

Yet you ask for "proof"?

You don't fool anyone.

Are you a fossil expert? You have implied as much many times, even implying that you have analyzed millions of fossils at one point.

You are obviously disingenuous in your requests, for each time you are provided with evidence, you simply ignore it and make your demands again. You are transparent.
You keep dodging your opportunity to answer.


Why put in the effort when your years-long track record shows you just play this idiotic game over and over?

You demand evidence, and upon receiving it, you merely ignore it or dismiss it .

You are not an honest person.
That is because the fossil record does not prove evolution.

Perhaps not by your layman's naive notions, but it absolutely DISPROVES the dopey numerologist tale of creation as seen in Genesis.


And you have no data to prove evolution every happened.

All you present are possibilities, speculations, and conjecture-based claims.

Evolution has hit a scientific wall of evidence, and all we see arround us are pieces of conjecture.

Evolution by science lacks proof. It has been built on conjecture.

I faced up. Now, how about you?

I have presented you on multiple occasions with evidence that evolution had happened.

In your usual way, you ignore it or dismiss it premised on your Abeka-text level of scientific understanding.

You are an embarrassment to your cause.

Actually, even sadder, you aren't, since the way you act is the norm.

What you continue to ignore, probably because you do not understand it:

I forget now who originally posted these on this forum, but I keep it in my archives because it offers a nice 'linear' progression of testing a methodology and then applying it - I have posted this more than a dozen times for creationists who claim that there is no evidence for evolution:

The tested methodology:


Science 25 October 1991:
Vol. 254. no. 5031, pp. 554 - 558

Gene trees and the origins of inbred strains of mice

WR Atchley and WM Fitch

Extensive data on genetic divergence among 24 inbred strains of mice provide an opportunity to examine the concordance of gene trees and species trees, especially whether structured subsamples of loci give congruent estimates of phylogenetic relationships. Phylogenetic analyses of 144 separate loci reproduce almost exactly the known genealogical relationships among these 24 strains. Partitioning these loci into structured subsets representing loci coding for proteins, the immune system and endogenous viruses give incongruent phylogenetic results. The gene tree based on protein loci provides an accurate picture of the genealogical relationships among strains; however, gene trees based upon immune and viral data show significant deviations from known genealogical affinities.

======================

Science, Vol 255, Issue 5044, 589-592

Experimental phylogenetics: generation of a known phylogeny

DM Hillis, JJ Bull, ME White, MR Badgett, and IJ Molineux
Department of Zoology, University of Texas, Austin 78712.

Although methods of phylogenetic estimation are used routinely in comparative biology, direct tests of these methods are hampered by the lack of known phylogenies. Here a system based on serial propagation of bacteriophage T7 in the presence of a mutagen was used to create the first completely known phylogeny. Restriction-site maps of the terminal lineages were used to infer the evolutionary history of the experimental lines for comparison to the known history and actual ancestors. The five methods used to reconstruct branching pattern all predicted the correct topology but varied in their predictions of branch lengths; one method also predicts ancestral restriction maps and was found to be greater than 98 percent accurate.

==================================

Science, Vol 264, Issue 5159, 671-677

Application and accuracy of molecular phylogenies

DM Hillis, JP Huelsenbeck, and CW Cunningham
Department of Zoology, University of Texas, Austin 78712.

Molecular investigations of evolutionary history are being used to study subjects as diverse as the epidemiology of acquired immune deficiency syndrome and the origin of life. These studies depend on accurate estimates of phylogeny. The performance of methods of phylogenetic analysis can be assessed by numerical simulation studies and by the experimental evolution of organisms in controlled laboratory situations. Both kinds of assessment indicate that existing methods are effective at estimating phylogenies over a wide range of evolutionary conditions, especially if information about substitution bias is used to provide differential weightings for character transformations.



We can ASSUME that the results of an application of those methods have merit.


Application of the tested methodology:


Implications of natural selection in shaping 99.4% nonsynonymous DNA identity between humans and chimpanzees: Enlarging genus Homo

"Here we compare ≈90 kb of coding DNA nucleotide sequence from 97 human genes to their sequenced chimpanzee counterparts and to available sequenced gorilla, orangutan, and Old World monkey counterparts, and, on a more limited basis, to mouse. The nonsynonymous changes (functionally important), like synonymous changes (functionally much less important), show chimpanzees and humans to be most closely related, sharing 99.4% identity at nonsynonymous sites and 98.4% at synonymous sites. "



Mitochondrial Insertions into Primate Nuclear Genomes Suggest the Use of numts as a Tool for Phylogeny

"Moreover, numts identified in gorilla Supercontigs were used to test the human–chimp–gorilla trichotomy, yielding a high level of support for the sister relationship of human and chimpanzee."



A Molecular Phylogeny of Living Primates

"Once contentiously debated, the closest human relative of chimpanzee (Pan) within subfamily Homininae (Gorilla, Pan, Homo) is now generally undisputed. The branch forming the Homo andPanlineage apart from Gorilla is relatively short (node 73, 27 steps MP, 0 indels) compared with that of thePan genus (node 72, 91 steps MP, 2 indels) and suggests rapid speciation into the 3 genera occurred early in Homininae evolution. Based on 54 gene regions, Homo-Pan genetic distance range from 6.92 to 7.90×10−3 substitutions/site (P. paniscus and P. troglodytes, respectively), which is less than previous estimates based on large scale sequencing of specific regions such as chromosome 7[50]. "




Catarrhine phylogeny: noncoding DNA evidence for a diphyletic origin of the mangabeys and for a human-chimpanzee clade.

"The Superfamily Hominoidea for apes and humans is reduced to family Hominidae within Superfamily Cercopithecoidea, with all living hominids placed in subfamily Homininae; and (4) chimpanzees and humans are members of a single genus, Homo, with common and bonobo chimpanzees placed in subgenus H. (Pan) and humans placed in subgenus H. (Homo). It may be noted that humans and chimpanzees are more than 98.3% identical in their typical nuclear noncoding DNA and probably more than 99.5% identical in the active coding nucleotide sequences of their functional nuclear genes (Goodman et al., 1989, 1990). In mammals such high genetic correspondence is commonly found between sibling species below the generic level but not between species in different genera."[/QUOTE]
 
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tas8831

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loveofourlord

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. Oh I remember that , National Geographic put it on the cover of one of their issues . They then realized that it was an amalgam of at least 2 other fossils . They printed the retraction , published it on their website and removed the picture of the cover from the website . They did all that BEFORE the issue was even mailed out . I had a subscription then and the retraction was in place a week before I got the magazine . Nat Geo owned up to their mistake and they also printed a retraction in the following issue. Now archaeoraptor wasn’t fake, it was various fossils glued together by an amateur. Two of those fossils were actually new to science. So what about it ? When was the last time a creationist organization admitted that they were wrong or had made a mistake? I seem to remember that Glenn Morton ( of Morton’s demon fame) asked his former YEC employer to take down his flood geology essays after he realized that they were valueless as geology information and he was ignored.

plus one of the fossils WAS a fathered dinosaur previously unknown.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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This drawing was done by a newspaper artist, not a scientist. It was based more on Java man (and even in that context, was still inaccurate) and Osborn himself said of it, "a figment of the imagination of no scientific value, and undoubtedly inaccurate". It is profoundly dishonest to portray this drawing as meant to support any scientific claims about Nebraska "man".

Nebraska man was used to support evolution as a missing link

That never happened. H. haroldcookii was never claimed to be a "missing link". Osborn only claimed it was the molar of an anthropoid ape, not a human ancestor. That is a falsehood spread by Creationists.
https://archive.org/stream/jstor-84019/84019_djvu.txt
>> The animal is certainly a new genus of anthropoid ape <<

It was presented in the museums and textbooks, shown in pictures in newspapers, as a missing link.

None of this ever happened either. Again, the tooth was supposedly that of an anthropoid ape, not a missing link and was controversial from the announcement. It would actually have been problematic for evolution because there shouldn't be any anthropoid apes in North America.

They had enough fossil evidence that they could tell what environment Nebraska man lived in, what his wife and kids looked like, and what they ate.

If by "they" this refers to London newspaper artist Amédée Forestier who concocted a fanciful rendition of Nebraska "man" and his family based more on Java Man which Osborn rejected as "a figment of the imagination of no scientific value, and undoubtedly inaccurate", then this would be correct. If "they" is supposed to refer to scientists it is utterly false.

It was examined by leading authorities from 26 institutions across Europe and the US and classified as a missing link. The fossils remains were estimated to be around 10 million years old. Later it was found out the only actual evidence found was 1 tooth.

Literally none of this ever happened. In fact the last sentence is, at best, accidentally correct because Cook only found one tooth, Osborn made his evaluations based on one tooth and everyone already knew it was only one tooth. If one reads the actual material instead of Creationist misinformation the tooth is from the middle-Piocene and is around 3.5 million years old. No one ever claimed it was "around 10 million years old". That is yet another falsehood.
https://archive.org/stream/jstor-84019/84019_djvu.txt

As Creationist Duane Gish said, science is truly an amazing thing when they get that much information from one tooth.

What's even more amazing is nothing that has been claimed about Nebraska "man" in this post is remotely factual (other than it being a single tooth).

Not only that, it was a tooth of a pig. Here is the real Nebraska man

View attachment 239633

And this is yet another falsehood from the OP. The tooth was porcine, but it was not from a domestic pig. It was from a wild species of peccary which is in Tayasuidae, an entirely separate family from the Suidae in which we find domestic pigs.

This shows how much imagination goes along with these finds and that they see what they want to see. How many believed in evolution because of this “missing link” over the decades.

Given that Nebraska "man", was never claimed to be a missing link nor a paragon of evolution and was correctly identified after only five years that number would be zero.
 
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kiwimac

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This drawing was done by a newspaper artist, not a scientist. It was based more on Java man (and even in that context, was still inaccurate) and Osborn himself said of it, "a figment of the imagination of no scientific value, and undoubtedly inaccurate". It is profoundly dishonest to portray this drawing as meant to support any scientific claims about Nebraska "man".



That never happened. H. haroldcookii was never claimed to be a "missing link". Osborn only claimed it was the molar of an athropoid ape, not a human ancestor. That is a falsehood spread by Creationists.
https://archive.org/stream/jstor-84019/84019_djvu.txt
>> The animal is certainly a new genus of anthropoid ape <<



None of this ever happened either. Again, the tooth was supposedly that of an anthropoid ape, not a missing link and was controversial from the announcement. It would actually have been problematic for evolution because there shouldn't be any anthropoid apes in North America.



If by "they" this refers to London newspaper artist Amédée Forestier who concocted a fanciful rendition of Nebraska "man" and his family based more on Java Man which Osborn rejected as "a figment of the imagination of no scientific value, and undoubtedly inaccurate", then this would be correct. If "they" is supposed to refer to scientists it is utterly false.



Literally none of this ever happened. In fact the last sentence is, at best, accidentally correct because Cook only found one tooth, Osborn made his evaluations based on one tooth and everyone already knew it was only one tooth. If one reads the actual material instead of Creationist misinformation the tooth is from the middle-Piocene and is around 3.5 million years old. No one ever claimed it was "around 10 million years old". That is yet another falsehood.
https://archive.org/stream/jstor-84019/84019_djvu.txt



What's even more amazing is nothing that has been claimed about Nebraska "man" in this post is even remotely factual (other than it being a single tooth).



And this is yet another falsehood from the OP. The tooth was porcine, but it was not from a domestic pig. It was from a wild species of peccary which is in Tayasuidae, an entirely separate family from the Suidae in which we find domestic pigs.



Given that Nebraska "man", was never claimed to be a missing link nor a paragon of evolution and was correctly identified after only five years that number would be zero.

I can guarantee this will be ignored because it is inconvenient to the story the other is trying to establish.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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and yet it had hundreds of peer reviewed papers on it and museum displays assuring us it proved evolution.

Variations of this assertion are tossed about by Creationists, but they never support their claims. Looking at Google Scholar for papers published between 1912 and 1960 there's only ~200 hits. Most of those are mere mentions of E. Dawsoni in a list of other fossils. Those that are actual papers are concentrated between 1913 and 1918. There are some papers that are questioning the find in there as well. These results hardly support the contention that this specimen was claimed to have "proved" evolution.

By the way, science doesn't prove anything and there's no such thing as scientific proof so it's best to try and exercise that particular verbiage from the discussion.

in fact also in museums and textbooks and It was examined by leading authorities from 26 institutions across Europe and the US and classified as a missing link. It shows how evolutionist will lie to indoctrinate and see what they want to see out of fossils. How is that not relevant to the thread?

That is not a fact. That is a falsehood. H. Haroldcookii was never in museums or textbooks. That is simply untrue. The tooth wasn't examined by "leading authorities from 26 institutions across Europe and the US" who "classified it as a missing link". That is simply untrue as well.

These supposed lies by "evolutionists" are quite humorous given the amount of falsehoods being told about them by Creationists, the fact that they're from 100 years ago and how Creationists ignore the many actual and correctly identified fossils like Java man (H. erectus), Taung Child, The First Family, Little Foot, Turkana Boy, Lucy, Selam, etc.
 
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USincognito

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Is either piltdown or Nebraska man actual evidence for evolution? Archeoraptor was a clumsy amalgam of at least 3 species. It wasn’t fake it was put together by a layman . You’re making a big deal out of nothing . Creationists will continue to do this tempest in a teapot nonsense and scientists will continue to do real research and ignore creationist blathering unless it interferes with teaching real science to children

That's the irony of threads like this.
It's stuff we've been over 100 times (on CF alone).
It's a bunch of PRATTs
It's from 100 years ago.
Nothing new is being introduced to the Creationism and Evolution debate by rehashing old news/tempest in a teapot stuff like this.
The falsehoods being told about Piltdown and Nebraska "man".
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Java man was the primary evidence used in the scopes trial as proof of evolution. It was used as an example for decades as proof of evolution and a missing link..Less than 1% of the complete human skeleton was found.

Absolutely false. Java man was not introduced as evidence during the trial because no scientific evidence was introduced during the trial. The trial was only concerned with whether John Scopes violated the Butler Act by teaching evolution. Pithecanthropus erectus was not used as "proof" of evolution, but as evidence for human evolution. It's also false that "less than 1%" was discovered. The find consisted of a molar, a femur and a skullcap. The skullcap is the most important part of the find because 93 years after it was uncovered WT-15000 was recovered in Kenya. Called Turkana Boy, it's one of the most complete hominid skeletons recovered to date.

When the Trinil 2 "Java" skullcap and the skull of Turkana Boy are compared:
1 use Turk 3.jpg

It's a perfect fit showing that the Trinil 2 skullcap was that of a Homo erectus, not a Homo sapiens or any other hominid.

-Boule M and Vallois H.V Fossil men a textbook of human paleontology

For all his brilliance, why should we care about someone's opinion from 70+ years ago?

-Milner the encyclopedia of Evolution and Jerry Bergman Evolution's Blunders, Frauds, and forgeries

That "quote" was from Bergman because Milner would never have spread such lies about DuBois. So again, why should we care about the opinions of a Creationist hack? Where is the actual evidence?

The fossils were not found together as one unit but were scattered about. The fossils were not found by Dubois but by an untrained convict labors.

And yet, despite this pathetic effort to poison the well, the skullcap was a perfect match for Turkana Boy. Golly, it's almost as if the Trinil 2 skullcap was an actual Homo erectus fossil after all.

After his original claims of finding a missing link [he had no training as a paleontologist] when he returned he hid the bones for 25 years after criticism from the scientific community arose, he was

That never happened. The Java man fossils were widely discussed in the literature during the first 10 years after their discovery.

Dubois later changed his mind and said his fossil was of a Gibbon...

That never happened either. It's an urban legend propagated by Creationists:
>> "The second popular and persistent myth about Dubois and his supposed reaction to the anthropological world's largely negative assessment of Pithecanthropus as a putative missing link.... It is true... that Dubois's proposition found little support among professional anthropologists ... But the rest of the story, about Dubois's supposed withdrawal and craziness, is apocryphal..."]; Gould 1993, p. 134 ["And now... I may finally correct the last and most insidious claim of the standard legend— [that] Dubois... redesignates his once-proud ancestor as nothing but a giant gibbon."]. <<

The Skull cap has been argued and debated but appears to be that of a human variant like neanderthals. Harvard paleontologist Dan lieberman studied a more complete skull of a java man and said

And yet the above photo shows that it was a different species of human. The same goes for Solo man and the skull from Sangiran - both of them are Homo erectus.
 
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If you go to my first thread you will find about a dozen examples off of talk origins doing so.
10 September 2018 Tolkien R.R.J: A possible "dozen examples off of talk origins doing" lie?
The post you replied to was
1. Give me specific examples of evolutionary scientists who quote mine to support evolution.

2. Or scientists in good standing who lie about their credentials.
This is the Talk Origins Archive.

You do not give a link to that "first thread". Is this the list of parroted lies in Evolutionist Caught Lying for Their Religion and has Evolution Been Demonstrated? That seems to have no analysis or evidence from you about talk origins.

How about the decade old lies about the age of the Earth in "Biblical Creation vs Evolution- the age of the Earth"? A list of debunked decades ago young Earth creationist myths and lies, Tolkien R.R.J.

Back a bit further for the ignorant "Science Only Works in a Biblical Worldview- Evolution Cannot Account for Science" (just read the title, OP and the very ignorant second post and citation of anti-science creationist web sites!)?
 
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tas8831

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RC could be accountable tp parroting.
And what of Tolkien - he has spam-trolled this and many other forums with copy-pasted multiple page-long diatribes that he cannot discuss of understand.

He gets a pass? No surprising, given your history.
 
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