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I have spare time due to illness and chatting on a forum isn't too draining, most of the time. I do think this is an important subject that the church today need to sort out, so I think it is worth being involved in the debate in my own small way. The question you raise is one I think about though
I have spare time due to illness and chatting on a forum isn't too draining, most of the time. I do think this is an important subject that the church today need to sort out, so I think it is worth being involved in the debate in my own small way. The question you raise is one I think about though
Go to church? You mean a building where I would sit on a pew and hear one or two lines of Scripture?
As for being with fellow human beings and groups....what do you think we are doing now? Also, I need not be with others to pray. I do that all the time.
God controls my life. He gave me artistic talent and with it I paint portraits for a nice amount of money, although it isn't steady income. He also opened the way to a job where I work four days a week from 8:00-3:00 for my daughter. Perhaps one or two hours is occupied and then I'm free to do as I wish for the remainder of the day as long as I answer phone calls. That allows me to obtain a steady salary that covers health insurance as well as building social security (I never worked during previous years...too much time on the tennis courts.)
I am exactly where I am supposed to be and doing exactly what I am supposed to be doing. It's a wonderful feeling.
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Yes, and not just in terms of the credibility of out faith, we are speaking with our fellow believers, children or our father in heaven. Which is why we need to keep reminding ourselves that our words whould be full of grace and seasoned with salt. I love when I can discuss this with creationists in friendship and fellowship, unfortunately many creationists ministries preach fear and condemnation and sincere creationists trust them and buy into the message. It can lead to pretty heated discussions, but I think the fear and condemnation from creationist ministries needs to be challenged as well as their rejection of science, which sadly does detract from the credibility of scripture and the gospel.
Sure it is consistent with creationism, but that that is not the same as being inconsistent with evolution. Remember you haven't shown that the bible say organisms only produce their own kind, and we have seen from mishpachah that what starts of as a single family can grow into a clan, a tribe, a whole nation, the nation consisting of many tribes each made up of clans, and each clan made up of families, all from one original family or mishpachah.
Nothing. But it is a good question. You see when two populations of the same species have been separated over generations they start to diverge. Different genetic changes build up in each population. At first this will lead to problems in reproduction like we see between horses and donkeys, where they can reproduce but the offspring tend to be sterile. As the species diverge further it is no longer possible even to produce infertile offspring. A classic example of this are ring species, where populations are able to interbreed with a neighbouring population, and the neighbour able to interbreed with their neighbour further along and so on, but the first group are not able to interbreed with more distant population. So A is interfertile with B, B is interfertile with C, C is interfertile with D, but A is not interfertile with D.
Beast, behemah, means livestock. Its seed refers to its offspring. God is promising lots of them
No, the two account use the terms beast of the earth and beast of the field, but God does not tell us there is a difference any more than he tells us there is a difference in God and LORD God. Just because you read a difference in to the two terms, just because you think having two terms means there has to be a difference, it doesn't mean the bible says there is one.
Ah, so you interpret the whole Jonah being swallowed by a whale story as a parable? I have come across that interpretation, but never from a creationist before. So you don't think there was actually whale?
You say the difference in vocabulary between beast of the earth and beast of the field mean they are different, one refers to animals the other beastly people. By your argument, the use of God and LORD God in the two chapters must mean these are two different deities. I agree they aren't two different gods and that the account doesn't tell us they are two different gods, I am using it to show you that the account doesn't say there were two different types of beast either.
Then why not take the beasts in both chapters figuratively?
As I pointed out before, having terms that are different doesn't mean you can't have terms that are synonyms, like illness and sickness.
If God can't inspire the use of synonyms, do you think the LORD God can?
Sometimes. And sometimes the same word are used in different ways in different contexts. Faith sometimes means trust and belief, sometimes it means being faithful and trustworthy, and sometimes it refer to the the message we believe. You know whirlwind, the word of God is living and active and much harder to pin down than we often realise. But even if one word can mean the the same thing everywhere it is used, it doesn't mean you can't have different words being used to mean the same thing.
How is Jesus saying Moses wrote about him and different from the fact Luke wrote about Jesus, and how does it mean either of them wrote Genesis?
Yes it describes Moses writing all the laws in the book of the Law, he wrote down songs and poems, and a list of stops on their journey. How does that mean Moses wrote Genesis?
No, I don't think you are being facetious. But you are not answering my question either. So far you have been explaining the meaning of 'the generations of the heavens and the earth' I am asking what was meant by 'these'. The passage isn't saying 'the generations of the heavens and the earth' are 'the generations of the heavens and the earth'. It is pointing to some text in scripture and calling it 'these' and saying 'these are the generations...' I am asking what the text is being referred to as 'these'?Ah, I see. Another interesting question.
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,I believe the "these" refers to both the generations of the heavens and of the earth. I'm not being facetious here. Stick with me on this. The generations of the earth (mankind) were given us in the first chapter. Then He gives us the generations of the heavens (Adam and his family).
Deuteronomy 32:1 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of My mouth.The heavens are those that have ears to hear and allow Him to speak through them. They speak His words, "words of My mouth," as they teach those of the earth.
Old habits and all thatI'll try but...I promise nothing!As well as being stubborn, I am forgetful. I can work on stubborn but forgetful is tough.
Those are all arguments from chapter 1, not God making Adam from clay in chapter 2, so I take it there is nothing in the imagery of God making Adam form clay that contradicts evolution.
Sorry, I corrected that paragraph but the computer ate my edits. Here is what it should have said:
I am not talking chronologically when I talk about a second argument, I am referring to the structure of your argument. (1) Your interpretation is not an interpretation it is what is written, and (2) scripture would needs to specifically teach evolution to correct you.
Probably because I have a completely unscientific mind...understanding and accepting all of this for what it is isn't a problem. Seeing the metaphorical language for the beautiful lessons they contain is something I cherish. And, I see them as literal descriptions of the real event but spoken in a poetic manner. Oops, did I already break my non-promise?
You can say he literally reckons a thousand years as a day. But reckoning a thousand years as a day is itself not literal, it is symbolic. The same as Jesus literally called himself a grapevine. He really did. That is what he actually said. But calling himself a tree is not literal it is metaphorical.
So you can't find a contradiction between God creating us in his image and using evolution to create us in his image, since instead you switch to other arguments we have already looked at.
And why are there three question marks in one smiley?(who is "Our?")
It is written days, you interpret each as a thousand years, that is not literal.Not when it's written as it is.
The reference to God creating the smith does not mention him having a pre-existent soul, nor does John 3:5 say anything about life before the womb.
The only births happening are in this age. Satan wasn't born of woman so has never been in a flesh body. He, as the other fallen angels cannot enter the kingdom in the eternity. They are doomed.John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.Men must pass through this life, be born of water (through the birth process...the bag of waters) and then they must also be born of the Spirit to be spiritually alive, to enter His kingdom.
Yes, bless his holy name. Beautiful insight ww. You know the bible uses the picture of God as a potter to describe both God making people and nations, and God's continuing work in their lives. Interesting though, you could read that in God forming Adam from clay too. Adam, man, is the human race and Genesis 2 is not just talking about God originally forming the human race, but how he continues to form us all and we all listen to the serpent, sin and fall short of his glory.
Then why do you have to switching arguments?Whether the points hold or not is in the eye of the teller. You may not see the velcro but...it's there and holds firmly.
Yay
OK this is yet another argument, not the dominion argument you were trying to support. To answer the cannibalism argument (nice one
Scriptural reference? Nah. Start a new thread on the topic
Unfortunately it hasn't a leg to stand on.
Actually I like the gap theory, when geology began to show just how old the earth is, Christian looked for other ways to understand Genesis 1, the Gap theory was the first of the explanations they came up with. Now it isn't the only way to interpret Genesis and I think some of the later interpretations the church came up with are better, but searching for a new way to understand Genesis when science contradicted Ussher's 4004 BC creation, was exactly the approach the church should have takenThere 'ya go. Evolution is wrong because what I'm saying is documented in Scripture.
Always nice to take the scenic route.
Umm, no, you started using ideas from the Gap theory to back up your dominion argument.True as that is...it still has to do with the subject and...you brought it up.
They had two problems, there wasn't enough room on their ship for all the species in case of a flood, and species have this embarrassing tendency to diverge into new species, not what they wanted with kinds.
Unfortunately the Gap Theory explanations I have heard tend to quote passage that are actually talking about the Babylonian conquest of Judah.
Exactly.
It stops us being led astray... unless we already are astrayBeing stubborn doesn't make one unable to distinguish truth.
Sure they can, it just means evolution is the process God created and used to make all the different forms of life on earth.
So we should be geocentrists too?
I though you said to ask God what it means?
But your understanding of it isn't written. It isn't written you should take the beasts of the earth literally, unlike the beast of the field which are men, that the beasts of the earth are created on the sixth day, which isn't a literal day it is a thousand years. It isn't written you should wrap up all this mixture of literal and figurative, in a Gap Theory interpretation of God creating men's souls before he made their bodies. It isn't written that kind means species only ever produce their own species or that this contradicts evolution. It isn't written you should interpret God forming Adam from clay both metaphorically and literally.
Clearly it didn't, since they had to walk out of Egypt.
So God being a potter and making me from clay is literal too? My mother and father lied to me about all that biology stuff? Please come up with a reason why God using the potter as a metaphor for making Adam contradicts God using evolution. Don't just claim that it does. I have said before it is not a metaphor for evolution, it is a metaphor for God making us. But that doesn't mean God didn't use evolution.
God isn't lying just because we misunderstand him. He wasn't lying when the geocentrists misunderstood him and he isn't lying when creationists misunderstand him today.
It would only be bogus if he gave us a supposed genealogy and didn't tell us. The gospels have loads of passages telling us what people though about Jesus, all their various mistaken suppositions that he was Elijah or one of the prophets, or John the baptist had risen from the dead. Clearly wasting papyrus was not an issue and they do seem genuinely interested in telling us what other people thought of Jesus even they got it wrong.
Be sure to ask a mathematician.
But you can't point to the specific battles where one Israelite defeated an enemy army of 1000, and two Israelites defeated a force of 10,000. Nine hundred and eighty seven would be specific, a thousand isn't.
That's the difference between your interpretation and what is written.
If you love the poetry in scripture you should learn the various forms it uses, including poetic parallelism. It is like being married, if we love our wife or husband we really need to try to understand what they are going on about when they talk to us.
Prov 6:16-19 There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him:
Interesting, you ignore the fact God is specifically addressing the Ammonites here, and take it as a general warning about judgement for all of us too. Of course it works on that level too, but you can't use that to ignore what God specifically tells the Ammonites about how he will judge them in the land of their origin where God created them.
Nativity means where the nation was born, land of their habitation means means the land where they live. Which tells us God created the Ammonites in the land where their nation was born, the land they lived in, the kingdom of Ammon.
That they were going to be taken into exile.
Prophecy?
I thought we had wondered off a bit all right. I was showing that the past tense used in Genesis to describe the seventh day do not necessarily the seventh day has already taken place, because the bible often uses the past tense to describe things that are yet to come.Okay but...what was the question about this?
