Evolution

[TheDag]

Please cite one instance of atrocities commited by American or Australian troops that was ordered by a General and supported by the proper authorities. Otherwise you are talking about teaching the exceptions, which is not teaching history, but pushing an agenda.

It is disengenious in the extreme to compare exceptions on one side to standard practice on the other.

The problem comes though is that it is a mindset. A way of thinking. For the japanese they have a huge emphasis on honour. For them to be caught alive was a fate worse than death. They just treated people according to their value system. It doesn't make it right of course. It is the same when we expect others to behave just like us though and then wonder why they get upset.

A question is not an answer. I'd like to see the citations keith has requested as well.

Will you provide them or not?

Vietnam is just one example of ordered attacks to kill babies and children. For me talking to WW2 vets who feels guilt and shame for treating POW that way is enough for me. They certainly wearn't talking about isolated incidents of one or two servicemen. At the end of the day I really don't care if you believe it or not.

 

[Hespera]

The problem comes though is that it is a mindset. A way of thinking. For the japanese they have a huge emphasis on honour. For them to be caught alive was a fate worse than death. They just treated people according to their value system. It doesn't make it right of course. It is the same when we expect others to behave just like us though and then wonder why they get upset.


Vietnam is just one example of ordered attacks to kill babies and children. For me talking to WW2 vets who feels guilt and shame for treating POW that way is enough for me. They certainly wearn't talking about isolated incidents of one or two servicemen. At the end of the day I really don't care if you believe it or not.

Do you have a point in all of this? War is nasty and brutal and anyone who takes part is going to do awful things.

For some it was official govt policy at the highest level to deliberately commit atrocities that were not a military necessity but reflected their
perverted thinking. That describes German and Japanese thinking in WWII. It does not describe the Aus, US, British etc thinking.

If you think it does, well, go ahead but it only says something about you. I dont think the rest of us want to hear any more about it.

 

[atomweaver]

The detainment of Japanese in WWII compares to an atrocity done by the Japanese in Philippines, China, Korea, Burma, Vietnam, Pacific Islands.....??? That is grotesque, thats ridiculous.

No, no. The Dag read me better. The response was to the assertion that US history only teaches some kind of "rosy" version of our involvements in war, where all our troops are the Good Guys, and all of our politicians are heroes. These weren't examples for comparison of the severity of one atrocity vs. another, they were examples to refute the position that only the "good" is taught in school about our own military and political actions...

And it wasnt paranoia, it was good sense.

In principal, perhaps. In execution, it was well below our standards of the time for the treatment of POWs. That is exactly why it was taught; as a cautionary tale. In this light, Guantanamo was a repetition of an earlier historical error, although one that affected fewer total people, but with more severe treatment...

WHAT do you suppose happened to any foreigners who happened to be in Japan at that time? VERY few made it home, after, of course, being forced to labor for the war effort.

Are you suggesting an eye for an eye, then? No, not with regards to the minimum standards of the treatment of people. I'd rather simply hold ourselves to a standard of treatment that we find to be acceptable... I don't get a vote in what the rest of the world chooses to do, but I do get one here in the US.

Obviously individual troops did and always will do awful things.

I dont believe that there was a Bataan Death March to the internment camps in the USA though.

What i grew up with, I have to force myself to be friendly to Japanese students. i know its wrong not to be, so I am, and I'm getting over it. Its not their fault. But the Japanese were really really bad and you wont find many Chinese who feel sorry they got nuked. Well, I do coz babies and women.. but oh well..

Not having your historical/cultural context within which you were raised, I won't pretend to understand what you feel. It sounds like you are coming to terms with it, though, and that is excellent. Remember, too, that while you are historically and culturally Chinese, you are now also an American. I'll only wish you good luck in choosing the best from both...

 

[Hespera]

No, no. The Dag read me better. The response was to the assertion that US history only teaches some kind of "rosy" version of our involvements in war, where all our troops are the Good Guys, and all of our politicians are heroes. These weren't examples for comparison of the severity of one atrocity vs. another, they were examples to refute the position that only the "good" is taught in school about our own military and political actions...



In principal, perhaps. In execution, it was well below our standards of the time for the treatment of POWs. That is exactly why it was taught; as a cautionary tale. In this light, Guantanamo was a repetition of an earlier historical error, although one that affected fewer total people, but with more severe treatment...



Are you suggesting an eye for an eye, then? No, not with regards to the minimum standards of the treatment of people. I'd rather simply hold ourselves to a standard of treatment that we find to be acceptable... I don't get a vote in what the rest of the world chooses to do, but I do get one here in the US.



Not having your historical/cultural context within which you were raised, I won't pretend to understand what you feel. It sounds like you are coming to terms with it, though, and that is excellent. Remember, too, that while you are historically and culturally Chinese, you are now also an American. I'll only wish you good luck in choosing the best from both...

Hey I am very serious minded yeah yeah USA! So maybe I get touchy with any criticism. Funny huh? But you are right all the things you said.