Evolution Since the Flood

[jon1101]

I often hear creationists (Ken Ham when he was at my chuch, for example) speak of a good bit of 'microevolution' since the flood. They'll say something about how there were a bunch of broad 'kinds' put in the arc, and since then they have microevolved into a myriad of different species, all within the same 'kind.'

Anyway, I was just curious if someone could point me to a scientific-yes-I-mean-scientific document detailing the process. I'm not entirely convinced that four thousand-ish years would be enough time for such evolution, but I don't really have any information to negate the position either. I suppose any scientific data to negate this hypothesis would be valued as well.

-jon

 

[FordPrefect]

You would think that given the timetable for creationist adaption compared to evolutionary adaption and speciation, there would be a much higher number of mutations occurring around us.

Good question

 

[MrMalone]

Regarding the flood account.

I don't know Hebrew, but perhaps the "whole" world wasn't flooded like it seems to say. I have to get my Bible again.

Also, the population and the concept of "world" was much much smaller then that what we think of it today. The area of the Dead Sea is the latest archaeological explanation for the flood story. Maybe everyone lived around there and noah's ark only took all the creatures of the "world" that they knew about at the time! Don't forget, it was thought that the "world" was flat just a few centuries ago.

We do have to remember that this account was written by ancient people... for ancient people. The fact that their termonolgy(sp?) doesn't line up with "ours" can be grounds to say we don't know what they mean. We have to think like ancient people to understand the accuracy of the story, not just how it doesn't plug into our understanding of the world.

Um, that's all I can think of right now.

 

[RufusAtticus]

Well, the fossil record is a good piece of evidence to negate these claims, since we can use it to approximately date the age of taxa.

Felids: Late Eocene/Early Oligocene (40-38 mya)
Ursids: Late Eocene/Early Oligocene (40-38 mya)
Canids: Late Eocene/Early Oligocene (40-38 mya)

The origin of three popular "kinds"--cat, dog, and bear--is much too old to be explained by radiation since 4004 BC.

Not to mention that the rates of mutation that these creationists are proposing are unheard of and physically too large for mutation-selection balance to be maintained. Basically, any species with such high mutation rates is almost guarenteed to go extinct rather than speciate.