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Evolution requires intelligent design

DogmaHunter

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Evolution requires intelligent design.

Evidence of this claim?

The fine-tuning of the fundamental constants of nature allow for the existence of chemical biological life of the kind we have on earth. This means, if you can somehow construct these living systems, the laws of physics allows for it.

This surprises you? Did you expect a universe with constants and laws in which we couldn't exist perhaps?


Doesn't follow.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Mainstream ToE depends on random chance, zillions upon zillions of them through processes of mutation and adaption.

Adaption (assuming this means natural selection), is anything but random....


Let's assume this is true. It's not clear to me how it could be true though, considering causality as we know it is a property of the physics of the universe itself, which wouldn't exist if the universe doesn't exist. But let's assume it's true....

Then all you can establish, is that the big bang had a cause. How do you get from "it has a cause" to "a god did it"?

See, when it comes to a causal chain of events, it is not enough to simply assert it. You actually need to demonstrate this chain of events.....

The slightest mutation or change, requires cause, and it cannot arrive through probability, only after the fact, after a cause, can the issue of probability even be considered.

That makes no sense to me at all.
 
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Jimmy D

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The first link shows a book by a couple of fundamentalist apologists... and other than the title I see nothing to suggest the scientists are "distancing themselves from Darwin".

It wouldn't seem to be a particularly trustworthy source anyway, even the description is dishonest....

"Norm has personally spent time with the authors and found them to be thoughtful, bright, humble and compassionate scientists themselves. Qualities we admire in all fields of endeavor".

To be a "scientist" shouldn't it suggest that you did a bit of science?

Dembski has no qualifications in the natural sciences - although he does have Phd's in Mathematics and philosophy.

Sean Mcdowell has qualifications in theology and of course nothing in the natural sciences.

It's pure apologist propaganda.

The second link doesn't support your claims any better. That conference was about the best way to study the fine details of evolution in the future, not doubts about common ancestry. It's been discussed on this forum many times before.

I suggest you look at the details of the conference from the Royal Society itself, rather than a questionable source which states "Darwinism is broken" which has nothing to do with the conference.

With the exception of the few fundamentalist right-wing organizations claiming to do "creation science" there is no dissension in the scientific community about common descent as far as I'm aware.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Adaptation is not evolution. Evolution claims that one species turns or "evolves" into another entirely different species

That is simply not correct.
In fact, if that were to happen, evolution theory as presently understood, would be debunked.

to which there is zero evidence.

There indeed is zero evidence to suggest that a species evolved into "entirely different" species. That indeed does not happen.

Evolution works through the gradual accumulation of micro-changes over generations.
Ever organism ever born, was of the same species as its direct parents.

Adaptation is observed but that is not the result of adding entirely new DNA or removing DNA, both to which is frankly impossible outside a lab.....which could lead one to Genesis 6....then to modern day transhumanism....I will leave it at that.

It is wise to "leave it at that". It would be even wiser to, while you are "leaving it at that", to actually read up a bit on evolution so that you can have an accurate idea of what it actually says, instead of the strawman/misconception you have in your head.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Evolution is change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations.

Where can I observe that?

Every time an organism produces off spring....

Show me one species turning into another over time.

Google "observed speciation".

Honestly you are just parroting the same old proven false theory. Did you know most scientist are actually distancing themselves from Darwin altogether.

lol
 
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Sorn

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I considered this view but reject it because there is no mechanism in which God can interact with the incredibly complex chemical biological mechanisms to tweak it here and there as needed.

Are not the miracles of Jesus turning water into wine, multiplying fish and bread examples of him interacting with biological matter and altering it at will, not to mention reversing whatever decay Lazarus had experienced in the days he was dead before he was resurrected. God has access to the natural world at levels and in ways that we can probably not comprehend.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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... I'm starting to hear from evolutionist physicists that the laws of physics do more; they are set up in such a way as to guarantee that life develops. They participate in the development of chemical biological life.
Citation?

That is a common misinterpretation of the Anthropic Principle. See How The Anthropic Principle Became The Most Abused Idea In Science.

It's now widely thought that the Anthropic Principle divides into Weak and Strong versions, the former being the obvious (observers will inevitably find themselves in a universe that can support observers), and the latter being the unsupportedly teleological (the purpose of the universe is to support life).

How many 'evolutionist physicists' support the Strong Anthropic Principle, to your knowledge?
 
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Greg Merrill

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attacks on evolution and the repetition of logical fallacies is not evidence for id.
Intelligent design, the God of the Bible, the Bible itself do not rise and fall upon false and incorrect theories of the evolution that does not exist, nor do they rise and fall upon either man's logic or man's labels of what he thinks are logical fallacies. Man is accountable to, and will be judged by an Intelligence that designed the material universe, that is also the God of the Bible, and Who will use the Words of the Bible to bring that judgment upon every individual human that has ever lived. People can disbelieve and deny, but that will not save them from this coming judgment.
 
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bhsmte

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Can you provide a scientific definition of intelligent design? How about a falsifiable test to determine when design is present?
 
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SilverBear

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There is no evidence of one species turning into another spontaneously in the fossil record. If so please cite it.
there is no evidence of any species spontaneously appearing.

Of course the key word here is spontaneously. It requires the appearance of a new species to be spontaneous however for evolution there is no such requirement. Silly word games don't help your position, rather they detract from it.

What the fossil record does show is the transformation of species over time. Deal with it.

you would tan while in Brazil thanks to millions of years of evolution and the adaption your ancestors went through to deal with higher exposure to UV light.

Furthermore there has been studies showing if you dump large and small animals in with dirt and water in a huge tank, stir them up and put water over them at a rapid rate they always layer in the same pattern....kind of like the flood.
Yeah I've read about these. The image of "scientists" tossing plastic children's toys into a wash tub was good for a laugh. As i recall the explanation was that dinosaurs were so much more streamlined so they sank to deeper layers....




yeah its pretty obvious that the Ankylosaurus here is so much more streamlined than this modern dolphin

 
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SilverBear

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Where can I observe that? Show me one species turning into another over time. Honestly you are just parroting the same old proven false theory. Did you know most scientist are actually distancing themselves from Darwin altogether.
you might try the mendelian institutes ongoing experiment.

Oh, and you may not be aware that the Darwinian model of evolution hasn't been in use for decades.
 
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SilverBear

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and you just claimed that the theory of evolution has been proven false. Evidence please.
 
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SilverBear

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you stated:
The material universe abounds with evidence of I.D.

Well it doesn't. When evidence for ID is requested the response is never evidence but often repeated logical fallacies and attacks (usually baseless) on evolution.
Your rant here tells me that you know this and that you know your claim about the abundance of evidence of ID is garbage.
 
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Greg Merrill

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On the contrary, what is evidence to one person, may not be conclusive evidence to another. What is declaration to one, may be ranting to another. You can choose to believe whatever you want. Speaking strictly for myself, every living cell of ever living organism is filled with evidence of ID. This is not an attack on evolution, this is evidence of ID, which could have no chance of coming into existence at all by non-intelligent chance. To the contrary, I know no such thing that what I write is garbage, but if you think it is.... to each his own.
 
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Evolution requires intelligent design.
No: Evolution

The values of the fundamental constants of nature means that life can exist. The still debated fine-tuned universe seems to be borrowed by intelligent design pseudo-scientists.

Evolutionist physicists are not stupid enough to fall for intelligent design pseudoscience.

What physicists who study evolution usually say is that the existing laws of physics almost mandate the start and evolution of life.
Entropy and life
Life Is Inevitable Consequence Of Physics, According To New Research
 
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Where can I observe that? Show me one species turning into another over time. Honestly you are just parroting the same old proven false theory. Did you know most scientist are actually distancing themselves from Darwin altogether.
It usually takes million of years for most species to evolve into another species so you cannot observe that! If you were to sit down just watch a species with short generations such as bacteria for many years you may be lucky and see a new species eventually emerge. But this has been done for you:
E. coli long-term evolution experiment
Evolution of aerobic citrate usage in one population
The inability to grow aerobically on citrate, referred to as a Cit− phenotype, is considered a defining characteristic of E. coli as a species...

There is also this rather exceptional case of what can happen in an isolated population: We Just Observed A New Species Evolving Right In Front Of Us

The real world presents us with many examples of new species:
Observed Instances of Speciation
Some More Observed Speciation Events
Claim CB910: No new species have been observed

17 April 2018 2Timothy2:15: Please give your evidence that "most scientist are actually distancing themselves from Darwin altogether".
That will be the number of scientists in the world, the number of scientists "distancing themselves from Darwin" and that the second number is a high % of the first (say at least 51%).
 
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SilverBear

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On the contrary, what is evidence to one person, may not be conclusive evidence to another. What is declaration to one, may be ranting to another. You can choose to believe whatever you want.
and i believe in empirical evidence, evidence that shows evolution is real, it does exist and it is true.
 
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Ophiolite

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I make these observations purely to help you and others of like mindset have a clearer picture as to where many evolutionists are coming from. I'm not trying to persuade you - I know a lost cause when I see one.

I have the impression that you are using the word evidence in a layman's sense. Evidence, in that case, is equivalent to "an indication", " a suggestion", "something pointing to a conclusion". It is qualitative, yet can be very convincing from the sense of wonder it may invoke. Scientific evidence is much more rigorous. Typically it will be quantitative and it will be scrutinised rigorously before it is admitted to the discussion.

Now, I've read and studied many of the standard ID arguments, frome Behe, Dembski, Meyer, Denton and Johnson. There is strong element of Argument from Incredulity in each of them. That is enough for me to set aside their assertions until the ID movement produces something a little more substantive.

Personally, I am rather open to the notion of intelligent design and greatly regret that it has been hijacked for religious purposes, thereby limiting the likelihood of serious study anytime soon.

Finally, I'm delighted you say you are not attacking evolution. Most ID proponents seem to believe that they can prove ID by disproving evolution. At least I can credit you with not being a fool.
 
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