Evolution is STUPID

[verysincere]

100 reasons why evolution is so stupid. - YouTube

There but by the grace of God go I.

 

[super animator]

There but by the grace of God go I.

What are you talking about.

 

[Smidlee]

GAT -> GATT is a mutation, it is also a gain in information (the T is unexpected and therefore new information)

I fail to see how that's new information. information is more than just code but it must be interpreted as well. Bible and Biblee is not new information since anyone read it will automatically realize the poster just accidentally hit the "e" twice. In that case Bible and Biblee is the same information just like tire and tyre. Now someone typing "Byribbuigerlitelity" would be the lost of information even though it has more letters (increase of code doesn't mean more information)
Information requires a code and an interpreter of that code. Thus the word "STOP" on a sign and a "red light" means the exact same thing so gives the same information even though the codes are totally different.

 

[Keachian]

I fail to see how that's new information. information is more than just code but it must be interpreted as well. Bible and Biblee is not new information since anyone read it will automatically realize the poster just accidentally hit the "e" twice. In that case Bible and Biblee is the same information just like tire and tyre. Now someone typing "Byribbuigerlitelity" would be the lost of information even though it has more letters (increase of code doesn't mean more information)
Information requires a code and an interpreter of that code. Thus the word "STOP" on a sign and a "red light" means the exact same thing so gives the same information even though the codes are totally different.

You're making the assumption that information has to be meaningful, it doesn't.

 

[Smidlee]

You're making the assumption that information has to be meaningful, it doesn't.

Since information means "to inform, to teach, to instruct" it's not an assumption. Without meaning it's just noise.

 

[Keachian]

Since information means "to inform, to teach, to instruct" it's not an assumption. Without meaning it's just noise.

Fine we can go with that, enough noise can create meaningful things though.

Take Conway's Game of Life, you can have starting positions of noise that will generate known structures such as gliders and pulsars, these are meaningful as they have defined attributes.

 

[Smidlee]

Fine we can go with that, enough noise can create meaningful things though.

Take Conway's Game of Life, you can have starting positions of noise that will generate known structures such as gliders and pulsars, these are meaningful as they have defined attributes.

Conway's Game of life itself is not just noise. It's a computer program with rules to govern it. In reality how useful is this game? After all it still just a game.
Even clouds can form images (this has more to do with our minds than clouds) yet the only information you get from them is about the weather. (unless you believe God is sending you a message by clouds)

 

[Keachian]

Conway's Game of life itself is not just noise. It's a computer program with rules to govern it. In reality how useful is this game? After all it still just a game.
Even clouds can form images (this has more to do with our minds than clouds) yet the only information you get from them is about the weather. (unless you believe God is sending you a message by clouds)

And there are rules which govern mutation.

Conway's Game of Life is actually a cellular automaton, not a game. The structures it creates which are persistent at some point weren't there before so the analogy holds.

I think another thing that I should point out is that I don't believe what happened happened without the hand of God.

 

[Assyrian]

Since information means "to inform, to teach, to instruct" it's not an assumption. Without meaning it's just noise.

Are you talking about the linguistic etymology of information or the scientific use of the term? If you are talking about noise, you seem to be referring to one of the scientific technical uses of the term information like Shannon, not the meaning of information in its everyday sense.

In terms of Shannon information, the first time a mutation occurs it could be described as noise especially if it occurs during cell division, since the original genome wasn't copied exactly. But now the mutation is part of the genome and the next time the genome is copied during cell division, the mutation is part of the information needed to make a copy of that genome. If the mutation occurs in a gene, the mutation is now part of the information, the recipe, the ribosome uses to build a protein. What earlier versions of the genome were may be of interest to geneticists, but as far as far as cell reproduction goes, the only relevant information is the current genome, earlier mutations and all.

 

[berachah]

In other words it isn't in the bible. If that is the case why do you have a problem with animals dying before the fall?

why do you have a problem with Genesis ch1.....?

"In the beginning....." etc etc

 

[Blackwater Babe]

I hate this superior and condescending attitude. Everyone knows what a kind is, even if they feign ignorance. Just because people don't use evolutionist classifications doesn't mean you can discard their opinions. Such opinionated arrogance..

Personally I enjoy the passion and enthusiasm of Hovind and he cuts the through the pseudo science of evolutionists, even if he gets it wrong from time to time. (and lets face it which evolutionist hasn't had to revise his theory over and over again) If one tracks back up the proposed evolutionary chain, a dog does originally come from a rock. (the rain poured on the rock, together with heat and time, formed a broth and the 1st organism spontaneously burst forth which eventually evolved into a dog - that is the theory of evolution in a nutshell)

And I would love to know just how all the extra genetic information actually gets into these ever evolving organisms.

OK, so what's a "kind"?

 

[berachah]

I could probably keep going through books on evolution and continue proving your statements wrong but I only have one other on hand, Thank God for Evolution it does have a timetable, it talks of hot springs in the ocean, and within the earth's crust, Dowd only puts these forward as a probability though and not a certainty.

A 'probability' taught is many schools as fact....

GAT -> GATT is a mutation, it is also a gain in information (the T is unexpected and therefore new information)

So the problem is theodicy? The answer to all questions of theodicy do not come down to us and our sinful natures, it is fundamentally answered in the Cross of Christ, the God of the universe entering in and demonstrating his Grace by reconciling creation back unto himself. It is not as if Christ is plan B, Christ is the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world, this cannot be if he is the backup plan.

Mutations do not have a gain in information, they have altered information and generally something that is toxic or malfunctioning ...like cancer.

The logic evolutionists want everyone to believe is the equivalent of taking a kids plastic tricycle and saying, given enough time, heat and random mutation, it could change into a space shuttle....

And God did not plan for the evil in this world. It was the work of the devil and man's own rebellion. Thank God He sent the 2nd Man to come redeem us when we stuffed up.

 

[Blackwater Babe]

*sigh* seriously? You want a list of all the observed, information adding mutations that have been recorded?
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB102.html

(the same anti-evolution arguments over and over... the same as next week and the week after that. Forgot why I don't get involved in these discussions anymore)

 

[berachah]

OK, so what's a "kind"?

cat kind - domestic cat, lion, tiger, lynx etc
dog kind - domestic dogs, wolf, fox
horse kind - domestic horse, zebra, donkey
man kind - Caucasian, Indian, Chinese

So creation says all men descend from the original Adam and Eve, whereas evolution teaches all people are at different levels of evolvment and therefore (to some), for the good of the species, the more advanced should oppress and eliminate the weaker species.

So Hitler started to eliminate the Jews, blacks and the sick & infirmed according to his list of the least evolved. Those are the very real consequences of this demonic doctrine...

 

[Keachian]

cat kind - domestic cat, lion, tiger, lynx etc
dog kind - domestic dogs, wolf, fox
horse kind - domestic horse, zebra, donkey

This doesn't actually provide a usable definition of kind, especially if we take kind to be a biblical definition, Gen 6:19 says that only two of every kind was to be brought onto the ark, while 7:3 tells us that there were more clean animals horse kind quite easily falls into the category of unclean animals as it ruminates and does not have a cloven hoof (cf Lev 11, Deut 14) So Noah could have taken a Zebra and a Horse, or a donkey and a horse, or a donkey and a zebra, but not so many that we'd have horse kind here today.

man kind - Caucasian, Indian, Chinese

I think you making the distinction between these subkinds is somewhat concerning. Unlike your previous kinds this one does not have assured sterility between subkinds.

So creation says all men descend from the original Adam and Eve, whereas evolution teaches all people are at different levels of evolvment and therefore (to some), for the good of the species, the more advanced should oppress and eliminate the weaker species.

No, there is only one species of human.

So Hitler started to eliminate the Jews, blacks and the sick & infirmed according to his list of the least evolved. Those are the very real consequences of this demonic doctrine...

It wasn't about evolution just as it wasn't about Christianity, the problem was idolising the creature rather than the creator, Third Reich Nazism was a self-destructive cult, which used both science and religion to justify something which could not be justified by either.

 

[Assyrian]

why do you have a problem with Genesis ch1.....?

I don't.

"In the beginning....." etc etc

I get that you might interpret Genesis 1 as a six day creation, but that still doesn't that tell you no animals died before the fall.

 

[Keachian]

A 'probability' taught is many schools as fact....

This is the first I'm hearing about the animals came from melted rocks scenario, however it does put me in mind of this verse:
And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living creature.

Mutations do not have a gain in information, they have altered information and generally something that is toxic or malfunctioning ...like cancer.

The logic evolutionists want everyone to believe is the equivalent of taking a kids plastic tricycle and saying, given enough time, heat and random mutation, it could change into a space shuttle....

Is there a way for the tricycle to reproduce? No? Stop being silly then.

And God did not plan for the evil in this world. It was the work of the devil and man's own rebellion. Thank God He sent the 2nd Man to come redeem us when we stuffed up.

That's still problematic, the Adversary had to go to He Who Is to gain permission to do anything (cf. Job 1) You are also running up against God's omniscience, he knew that the Adversary would 'rebel' he knew that Adam would take of the tree and because of this foreknowledge he always intended to be Emmanuel, this is clear from reading Gen 1, from reading the Messianic prophecies, from the fact that we are created in God's image. The Bible points to Christ from beginning to end, history points to Christ from beginning to end, all of creation points to the Godman from eternity to eternity. That is the glory of God reflected in his Creation, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven, on earth and under the earth!

 

[Blackwater Babe]

cat kind - domestic cat, lion, tiger, lynx etc
dog kind - domestic dogs, wolf, fox
horse kind - domestic horse, zebra, donkey
man kind - Caucasian, Indian, Chinese

And you say there are no examples of intermediate forms between these "kinds", do you?

So creation says all men descend from the original Adam and Eve, whereas evolution teaches all people are at different levels of evolvment and therefore (to some), for the good of the species, the more advanced should oppress and eliminate the weaker species.

Pray tell, where does "evolution", say any such thing?

So Hitler started to eliminate the Jews, blacks and the sick & infirmed according to his list of the least evolved. Those are the very real consequences of this demonic doctrine...

Hitler also believed that cruelty to animals was bad, and prosecuted people accordingly. Does this mean that being nice to animals is a "demonic doctrine"?

 

[Assyrian]

cat kind - domestic cat, lion, tiger, lynx etc
dog kind - domestic dogs, wolf, fox
horse kind - domestic horse, zebra, donkey
man kind - Caucasian, Indian, Chinese

How do you know foxes are part of dog kind and not a separate fox kind? What about jackals? Are they a separate kind or part of dog kind? Are fossil dog-bears dog kind or bear kind? Or are they both dog-bear kind?

Ability to reproduce is ok, though messy, for defining species. but it doesn't work with kinds, because as infertile mules and ring species show, two groups separated long enough can lose the ability to interbreed.

So creation says all men descend from the original Adam and Eve, whereas evolution teaches all people are at different levels of evolvment and therefore (to some), for the good of the species, the more advanced should oppress and eliminate the weaker species.

No that is not what evolution teaches.

So Hitler started to eliminate the Jews, blacks and the sick & infirmed according to his list of the least evolved. Those are the very real consequences of this demonic doctrine...

Killing Jews in Germany goes back long before Darwin.

 

[Smidlee]

And there are rules which govern mutation.

Conway's Game of Life is actually a cellular automaton, not a game. The structures it creates which are persistent at some point weren't there before so the analogy holds.

Conway's Game of Life isn't much of anything. It's just turn on and off a butch of pixels.
If a pixel to the left which is on for 100ms then turn off at the same time the pixel to the right turn on for 100ms then turn off and the next pixel on the right turn on, etc,etc your brain will connect the pixels as one pixel like a ball moving to the right. Yet in reality a single pixel isn't moving to the right but separate pixels turn off and on. So is this program nothing but turning pixels off and on and has absolutely nothing to do with life... a lot like video games.