Evolution is proven false!

[lasthero]

Evidence litters the internet. You will never accept it as it is, for the most part, on web pages that you considered biased.

If you look hard enough on the internet, you can find evidence for all sorts of things. You remember that website you found for the giant footprint, and all the evidence it had for werewolves and zombies?

Just because it pops up on Google doesn't make it true.

 

[Davian]

If you look hard enough on the internet, you can find evidence for all sorts of things. You remember that website you found for the giant footprint, and all the evidence it had for werewolves and zombies?

Just because it pops up on Google doesn't make it true.

Blasphemy!

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Evidence litters the internet.

Dried links are the worst sort of garbage.

 

[Split Rock]

Evidence litters the internet. You will never accept it as it is, for the most part, on web pages that you considered biased.

The internet is sure littered all right. With a lot of junk. I can show you "evidence" for:
Moon landing faked
Moon replaced by hologram
Demons disguising themselves as airplanes
Govenment poisoning us with chemtrails from airplanes
etc., etc.

All posted by people who have no understanding of basic science... like what conditions cause water vapor to condense in the air.

I could be here for hours presenting my finds from all kinds of sources, however, I have better things to do today besides being told that my sources are not up to your standards.

That is why we have experts who study this stuff. You reject what you like from their conclusions, not because the evidence compels you, but because your religious dogma compels you. Then you come here and bring up all the "evidence," like it means anything to you.

To say that there is no evidence of a global flood is like saying the moon doesn't reflect the sun.

Nonsense.

It doesn't matter if it's a tree or an animal. Any organism that occupies layers of strata that "supposedly" show millions of years of time passing, debunk the whole million of years of time claim.

The link I provided shows jellyfish existing in million years of strata. A whole school, existing in two layers supposedly millions of years of time between them. I can't imagine jellyfish lasting much more than a couple of weeks if they weren't eaten.

No, it does not show a "school exisitng in two layers." It shows multiple schools of jelly fish occupying different layers, that died at different times. from: Blackberry Hill

The quarry contains different layers with densely populated impressions the likely result of a mass-stranding of groups of madusae on a Paleozoic shoreline. Such strandings frequently still occur on Earth, but in the Cambrian there were no land predators. The fossils exhibit features nearly identical to those observed in modern scyphozoan strandings. Some event in the absence of shore erosion may have enabled the stranded jellyfish to be buried and these fossil imprints to form. It was during the Cambrian that animals with hard shells first appeared, enabling a rich fossil record to begin. Trace fossils such as these soft-bodied jellyfish are exceedingly rare. The medusae jellyfish fossils have so far been found in seven layers in the quarry, representing some 12 vertical feet of rock and corresponding to a span of time of about one million years. Hagadorn, et. al. state that the quarry's features are "consistent with an intermittently exposed intertidal and shallow-subtidal setting that was probably located in a shallow lagoonal area with limited wind fetch . . . . within a possible sandy barrier island system on the flank of the Wisconsin dome may have further restricted the environment, and severe tropical storms provide a plausible mechanism for medusoid stranding.​

 

[Mr Strawberry]

It may help to understand that God is a Triune. God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit. They can speak to each other as three but are all part of the God head.

Yes, in the make it up as we go along story that is the trinity, they are all the same thing, they are versions of your god.

God does not pardon the sin because He is so "impressed" with "himself".

Oh? Why doesn't he just pardon the sin without the big performance then? Surely he must be just a little bit impressed with himself otherwise he would do the forgiving without it.

The sin can be pardoned because the price has been paid.

Paid by himself to himself. God has paid the price to himself, or, in other words, god is so impressed with himself that he does some pardoning.

It has nothing to do with someone being "impressed".

Why does he bother with the big dramatic fake suicide performance then? There's nothing stopping him doing the forgiving without that pantomime.

It's like I paid a $100,000 dollar fine for you because you couldn't pay it and the only other penalty was death.

No, it's like god paid $100,000 to himself before declaring that he can now excuse you from going to hell, which obviously he couldn't have done without paying himself first. Do you see how insane that is? What was the point of the payment to himself? To impress himself enough to do some forgiving presumably.

And, all you had to do is plead guilty, not knowing me, not seeing me, not having any proof that I would come through.

Yes, that's the blackmail bit on the other side of this absurdity: plead guilty, without knowing, seeing or having any other proof that this is anything other than the preposterous nonsense it sounds like, or go to hell forever. Nice one.

Someone just told you that I would pay it if you would plead guilty.

Unfortunately that someone's story is full of holes.

 

[Loudmouth]

Try this though.


School of jellyfish fossilized in 7 "million-year" layers | Young Earth - Age of the Earth - Evidence Against Old Earth Arguments

You try it. Discuss the claims, and show how they are supported by what the authors of the paper wrote.

Stranded on a Late Cambrian shoreline: Medusae from central Wisconsin

If you can't even support the creationist claims, why should we spend any time trying to falsify them? It seems that you already know that the creationists are lying.

 

[Loudmouth]

Evidence litters the internet.

Then present it. No more bare links. Discuss the findings, and show how they support your claims. Use the real papers written by the scientists who did the actual science, not the lying creationist sites that distort the actual science.

 

[Loudmouth]

It doesn't matter if it's a tree or an animal. Any organism that occupies layers of strata that "supposedly" show millions of years of time passing, debunk the whole million of years of time claim.

How so?

If we find a jelly fish in a layer that is 10 million years old, and then a jellyfish in a layer above it that is 3 million years old, why is this a problem?

The link I provided shows jellyfish existing in million years of strata. A whole school, existing in two layers supposedly millions of years of time between them. I can't imagine jellyfish lasting much more than a couple of weeks if they weren't eaten.

How is that a problem? Two schools of jellyfish millions of years apart. Last I checked, evolution allows for large groups of species to be around for millions of years.

 

[JacksBratt]

Yes, in the make it up as we go along story that is the trinity, they are all the same thing, they are versions of your god.

The trinity is part of the "make it up as we go"? Hmm the trinity was around at creation. Remember "In the beginnig God created the Heavens and the earth" and the "spirit" of God was hovering. Then later, In the beginning was the word and the word was "with" God and "was" God. Later again, talking about Jesus, it states that He is the image of the invisible God and that He created all things.

This puts God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus at the creation. A triune, trinity, three in one. It's not made up as you go.

Oh? Why doesn't he just pardon the sin without the big performance then? Surely he must be just a little bit impressed with himself otherwise he would do the forgiving without it.

Again, it wasn't the performance, it was the sacrifice, the debt was paid. Jesus physically suffered and died, for me, for you.

Paid by himself to himself. God has paid the price to himself, or, in other words, god is so impressed with himself that he does some pardoning.

Paid by Jesus the man who was God. Paid by God in human form who was sinless.

Why does he bother with the big dramatic fake suicide performance then? There's nothing stopping him doing the forgiving without that pantomime.

Crimes must be atoned for. Otherwise it is just cheap grace. The price has to be paid.

No, it's like god paid $100,000 to himself before declaring that he can now excuse you from going to hell, which obviously he couldn't have done without paying himself first. Do you see how insane that is? What was the point of the payment to himself? To impress himself enough to do some forgiving presumably.

He had to get the $100,000 from some where. He earned it. That is not insane.

Yes, that's the blackmail bit on the other side of this absurdity: plead guilty, without knowing, seeing or having any other proof that this is anything other than the preposterous nonsense it sounds like, or go to hell forever. Nice one.

Black male eh? Black male only works if you are going to do something bad to me if I don't do something I don't want to do for you.

Salvation is God doing something He didn't want to have to do so that I can avoid something that is going to happen to me.

What is the something bad God is going to do to me and what is the something I don't want to do to avoid it?

That's like saying to a blind man "If you don't drink this can of coke that I bought, I'm going to make you blind"

A lot different than saying to a sighted man "IF you don't pay me $100,000 I'm going to poke out your eyes.

Salvation is a third man saying "Hey dude, here's $100,000, don't poke our his eyes.

 

[Davian]

...

Salvation is God doing something He didn't want to have to do so that I can avoid something that is going to happen to me.
...

 

[lasthero]

Black male eh? Black male only works if you are going to do something bad to me if I don't do something I don't want to do for you.

I'm sorry, but I have to ask - do you seriously think you're spelling that word correctly?

 

[TLK Valentine]

gain, it wasn't the performance, it was the sacrifice, the debt was paid. Jesus physically suffered and died, for me, for you.

As part of the Trinity, Jesus paid the debt to Himself.

Paid by Jesus the man who was God. Paid by God in human form who was sinless.

And what does being sinless have to do with it?

Crimes must be atoned for. Otherwise it is just cheap grace. The price has to be paid.

Says who?

Salvation is God doing something He didn't want to have to do so that I can avoid something that is going to happen to me.

And why did God have to do it -- or anything for that matter?

Being God means never "having" to do anything.

Salvation is a third man saying "Hey dude, here's $100,000, don't poke our his eyes.

Saying "Hey dude..." to Himself, that is...

 

[JacksBratt]

As part of the Trinity, Jesus paid the debt to Himself.

This was Jesus the man that paid the debt.

And what does being sinless have to do with it?

Really? If Christ was not sinless, He would have had to pay a debt for His own sins. He could never, then, have paid the price for me.

Says who?

God.

If the penalty is not paid then the criminal is still in debt.

And why did God have to do it -- or anything for that matter?

No man was going to do it. So Christ had to come and do it. Otherwise, all would suffer eternal separation from God.

Being God means never "having" to do anything.

You're right. He doesn't "have" to do anything. Does HE. But, He does.

Saying "Hey dude..." to Himself, that is...

You're really stuck on "to Himself" aren't you. Well, I'm glad you see Jesus and God being one. Now just imagine that they are also separate. Kind of like when the company "board" is made up of several people. Yet they are one board. While in a Supernatural way the trinity is much more connected and "one" than the board of humans.

I can't really see the difficulty here.

 

[Davian]

This was Jesus the man that paid the debt.



Really? If Christ was not sinless, He would have had to pay a debt for His own sins. He could never, then, have paid the price for me.



God.

If the penalty is not paid then the criminal is still in debt.





No man was going to do it. So Christ had to come and do it. Otherwise, all would suffer eternal separation from God.



You're right. He doesn't "have" to do anything. Does HE. But, He does.





You're really stuck on "to Himself" aren't you. Well, I'm glad you see Jesus and God being one. Now just imagine that they are also separate. Kind of like when the company "board" is made up of several people. Yet they are one board. While in a Supernatural way the trinity is much more connected and "one" than the board of humans.

I can't really see the difficulty here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mII6-IyaT3o

 

[TLK Valentine]

This was Jesus the man that paid the debt.

Yes, but Jesus the Man is also Jesus the God -- you can't separate one from the other.

Really? If Christ was not sinless, He would have had to pay a debt for His own sins. He could never, then, have paid the price for me.

Why not? Who are you to tell God -- in whatever form he takes -- what He can or can never do?

Don't get me wrong, I agree that if Jesus was, indeed, God, then he was sinless -- since God cannot disobey Himself, now can He?

God.

If the penalty is not paid then the criminal is still in debt.

Any debt can be forgiven. Christians are, in fact, called upon to be forgiving; it's one of Christs' most important lessons.

Does a Christian's forgiveness have strings attached?

No man was going to do it. So Christ had to come and do it.

But a man did come and do it -- Christ. In addition to being God, Christ was every bit as human as you and me.

Otherwise, all would suffer eternal separation from God.

Because God cannot forgive without a blood sacrifice? How limiting.

You're right. He doesn't "have" to do anything. Does HE. But, He does.

So the truth is that the cross, the atonement, the whole cosmic melodrama, was God's choice.

God didn't "have" to arrange a sacrifice to forgive sins; He could've simply said, "you're forgiven!" and that would've been that. But, He didn't. He chose the melodrama.

You're really stuck on "to Himself" aren't you. Well, I'm glad you see Jesus and God being one. Now just imagine that they are also separate. Kind of like when the company "board" is made up of several people. Yet they are one board. While in a Supernatural way the trinity is much more connected and "one" than the board of humans.

So one member of the board makes a sacrifice because another member demands it -- except since, in a Supernatural way the trinity is much more connected and "one," the board analogy is pretty much shot right there.

I can't really see the difficulty here.

You made an interesting analogy, and then admitted that it doesn't apply here. The funny thing is, a board can decide to do something even if not all the members agree on it -- majority rules, and all that.

Is that the case with the trinity?

 

[chilehed]

Second, nobody, anywhere, with half a brain ever said the universe came from nothing. The universe came from a singularity. When it expanded that was the "Big Bang." Where the singularity came from or how it got there we DO. NOT. KNOW. That is not to say that, "Since we don't know that must mean, goddidit." That means, we do not know. There could have been a, "big crunch" previously from a universe just like ours that expanded then contracted back into a singularity and then expanded again. We do not know. What we do know is remarkable. We know the state of the universe to within an instant of that expansion starting. And, since time began when that expansion began you can't really ask, "what came before the Big Bang?" since there was no "before".

Your argument here doesn't address the best presentation of the first cause argument. More study on your part is needed. I suggest the work of Peter Kreeft.

I understand that you may believe what you believe. But please... stop with the insistence that what you believe is scientific. If one part of it is a miracle that defies scientific explanation then likely it all is. Just accept that what you are espousing isn't going to fit into a scientific mold. You're not going to find evidence for it. You can't prove it. That's why it's called, "faith."

A number of the people here have no more than a pop-sci understanding of thermodynamics. However, the third sentence is a non-sequitur. The fourth should be tempered with the understanding that not all truth is discoverable by science. And the last three display the seriously flawed notion of the definition of the word faith that was promulgated by such as Bertrand Russel.

 

[SLP]

Evidence litters the internet. You will never accept it as it is, for the most part, on web pages that you considered biased.

I could be here for hours presenting my finds from all kinds of sources, however, I have better things to do today besides being told that my sources are not up to your standards.

To say that there is no evidence of a global flood is like saying the moon doesn't reflect the sun.

You seem to believe that anything on a YEC website is accurate.

Have you bothered reading up on, say, one of the things at the worldwide flood link you presented to see if the information there is accurate?

But yes - evidence DOES litter the internet. This is why I am shocked that so much dishonest nonsense litters creationist websites.

 

[SLP]

It doesn't matter if it's a tree or an animal. Any organism that occupies layers of strata that "supposedly" show millions of years of time passing, debunk the whole million of years of time claim.

Are you familiar with the concept of erosion?

 

[selfinflikted]

This is why I am shocked that so much dishonest nonsense litters creationist websites.

Shocked? Nope. More like expected.

 

[SLP]

Shocked? Nope. More like expected.

Well sure, I guess I am more shocked that such garbage remains, seeing as how easy it is to debunk their lies - even the subtle ones. I guess the owners/authors of such such websites/ articles don't really need to worry about their sheeple doubting them.