Evolution is proven false!

[JacksBratt]

Such a flood would leave a pretty obvious signature in the geologic record. Why can't you point to it?

Scientific Evidence for a Worldwide Flood

 

[JacksBratt]

Got any scriptural evidence for that claim?

We see in this passage of scripture (that's what your looking for, right?)
that the serpent states a question about what God really said about eating of the fruit. Eve replies that they may eat of from trees in the garden but "must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden (then she says "the can't touch it either", which God never said) or we will die.

Now, if I had knowledge that I was NOT to do something or there would be a consequence. Would you not say I knew what was right and wrong.

OR are you saying that she knew shouldn't do it but had no knowledge of it being wrong?

Two year olds know not to do things, they know right from wrong yet have no knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3 New International Version (NIV)

3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

I am really surprised at your answer, lewis. I would have figured you would have been able to help Mr. Strawberry out here.

I don't know which part of the world you live in, but when it's time to catch a break -- I eat a meal, watch something on the idiot box and drift into dreamland.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Scientific Evidence for a Worldwide Flood

Argument by link from a website with a dark blue background and neon blue fonts, hurts the eyes too much to read.
Plus if I recall checking out the author of this site, there ain't much here than more links to other sites -- please enlighten us as to the precise point you are making?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

I am really surprised at your answer, lewis. I would have figured you would have been able to help Mr. Strawberry out here.

Anyway, who is doing the forgiving?

That would be God. It's like this.....

I die, I go to be judged, Satan points to me and says to God "here is one of your filthy disgusting humans, they did X and Y and Z and all the rest of the alphabet. Whatcha gunna do to him?"

You see, Satan is our accuser... don't miss that simple fact.

Then, God will say, "Satan, you are right, he must be sent to eternal punishment".

Then Christ will step forward and say "not so fast, I bled and died on a cross and payed the price for this human, they believed and accepted me as their savior, I paid their debt".

Then God will say "this human is pardoned, they can enter into eternal life".

The forgiving is done because, as another poster said here, sin cannot exist in the presence of God. So, if we are sinners and not forgiven by God,without our sins paid for with Christs death and resurrection, then we cannot exist with God.

Hope this helps.

Hang on, this is all over the place. Christ is god in human form - they are the same person, or entity, if you prefer. Your imaginary conversation is nonsensical. You have god pretending to sacrifice himself to impress himself enough to pardon sins. That's what you are describing. Let's go through your conversation:

Then, God will say, "Satan, you are right, he must be sent to eternal punishment".

Then Christ will step forward

who is actually god, just in human form let's not forget.

and say "not so fast, I bled and died on a cross and payed the price for this human, they believed and accepted me as their savior, I paid their debt".

God addressing himsef there. Does the conversation begin to strike you as insane yet?

Then God will say "this human is pardoned, they can enter into eternal life

"

And finally god pardons the sin because god is so impressed with his own suffering.

You honestly mean to tell me that what you have just described does not in any way strike you as completely and utterly barking? No?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Then we will assume for this example that the father
is the Supreme Court Chief Justice John G. Roberts
and he is holding himself and his child to his own rules.

So the supreme judge tells the court that he has decided to pardon the prisoner, who is his son, because he, the judge, has punished himself most severely at an earlier date and this allows him to pardon, forgive and otherwise excuse the prisoner, his son, of whatever crime he has committed.


That is your comparison? And you think that makes sense do you? Nothing about that strikes you as ludicrous?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

God can change your prayer to match his answer to it.
It floors you when it happens.

So now you say that god is actually telling you what to pray for. Yes?

 

[Queller]

Originally Posted by Mr Strawberry

And who is doing the forgiving? Who is god trying to impress enough with his noble sacrifice to allow the sinners to be forgiven?
​

I am really surprised at your answer, lewis. I would have figured you would have been able to help Mr. Strawberry out here.

Anyway, who is doing the forgiving?

That would be God. It's like this.....

I die, I go to be judged, Satan points to me and says to God "here is one of your filthy disgusting humans, they did X and Y and Z and all the rest of the alphabet. Whatcha gunna do to him?"

You see, Satan is our accuser... don't miss that simple fact.

Then, God will say, "Satan, you are right, he must be sent to eternal punishment".

Then Christ will step forward and say "not so fast, I bled and died on a cross and payed the price for this human, they believed and accepted me as their savior, I paid their debt".

Then God will say "this human is pardoned, they can enter into eternal life".

The forgiving is done because, as another poster said here, sin cannot exist in the presence of God. So, if we are sinners and not forgiven by God,without our sins paid for with Christs death and resurrection, then we cannot exist with God.

Hope this helps.

Why would God say that person is condemned? He already knows who has accepted Christ and who hasn't. He doesn't need Jesus to tell Him that.

 

[Queller]

We see in this passage of scripture (that's what your looking for, right?)

What a stupid question. Of course I am looking in Scripture, that's why I specifically asked if there was any scriptural support.

that the serpent states a question about what God really said about eating of the fruit. Eve replies that they may eat of from trees in the garden but "must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden (then she says "the can't touch it either", which God never said) or we will die.

Now, if I had knowledge that I was NOT to do something or there would be a consequence. Would you not say I knew what was right and wrong.

No, I would say that you knew that if you did something you would be punished for it. Being punished for something doesn't make it wrong.

OR are you saying that she knew shouldn't do it but had no knowledge of it being wrong?

Exactly.

Two year olds know not to do things, they know right from wrong yet have no knowledge of good and evil.

No, they don't know right from wrong. All they know is they are told not to do something.

Genesis 3 New International Version (NIV)

3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

Try again.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Why do you always take everything to the extreme?

You take a grand problem, a global problem and I say God won't come down tomorrow and fix it. Then you twist that into "Prayer doesn't work"

Well, wouldn't you have to be something of a twerp to imagine god would help you out with your prayers when he is so markedly ignoring the prayers of people who are actually going to die today. If he's not helping them he isn't helping you either.

The two are totally different.

No, they're not. They are all requests for your god to intervene on your behalf. Obviously he isn't intervening on their behalf, so....

God cannot save the whole world from itself. Man has free will.

And apparently humanity's free-will totally pwns god's omnipotence and omniscience. Oh, hang on...

Now, if every human on the planet suddenly believed. We would have a revival. Greed would disappear, the people like Oprah and Bill gates would give their billions of dollars to free the people from it.

Lol, you have a very touching view of the power of belief to change human nature.

God answers prayers of those who ask and if it is part of His will.

So the prayers of the 21,000 people who die of hunger related deaths every day are ignored because to let them live would not be part of your god's will.

Have you thought of joining your god's public relations team?

IF mankind wants to fix world poverty, man has to do it, with the help of prayer.

It's taken centuries to get here, it won't be fixed anytime soon

Certainly not by your supposedly omnipotent but most definitely non-interventionist god anyway.

 

[Loudmouth]

Scientific Evidence for a Worldwide Flood

Bare links are not allowed in these forums.

Can you discuss the evidence or not?

 

[lasthero]

Scientific Evidence for a Worldwide Flood

So, I click on your link, and the first thing I notice is the polystrate tree thing.

Pop quiz. Can you name any time when one of these trees was found in layers that were measured to be millions of years apart? I'm not talking about when a creationist SAID they were - I'm talking this actually being documented in the literature. If you can't, think about why that might be. And if you start thinking about conspiracies, consider how creationists would know about it, when they never date anything.

 

[JacksBratt]

Hang on, this is all over the place. Christ is god in human form - they are the same person, or entity, if you prefer. Your imaginary conversation is nonsensical. You have god pretending to sacrifice himself to impress himself enough to pardon sins. That's what you are describing. Let's go through your conversation:
who is actually god, just in human form let's not forget.

God addressing himsef there. Does the conversation begin to strike you as insane yet?

"

And finally god pardons the sin because god is so impressed with his own suffering.

You honestly mean to tell me that what you have just described does not in any way strike you as completely and utterly barking? No?

It may help to understand that God is a Triune. God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit. They can speak to each other as three but are all part of the God head.

God does not pardon the sin because He is so "impressed" with "himself". The sin can be pardoned because the price has been paid. It has nothing to do with someone being "impressed". It's like I paid a $100,000 dollar fine for you because you couldn't pay it and the only other penalty was death.

And, all you had to do is plead guilty, not knowing me, not seeing me, not having any proof that I would come through. Someone just told you that I would pay it if you would plead guilty.

 

[JacksBratt]

So, I click on your link, and the first thing I notice is the polystrate tree thing.

Pop quiz. Can you name any time when one of these trees was found in layers that were measured to be millions of years apart? I'm not talking about when a creationist SAID they were - I'm talking this actually being documented in the literature. If you can't, think about why that might be. And if you start thinking about conspiracies, consider how creationists would know about it, when they never date anything.

Ya, I can see it now, a non-creationist, non-young earth site, stating that polystrate fossils were discovered in strata measured in millions of years.

So, I cannot produce what you say. All the sites that state such a fact would come from the YEC camp.

Well played....lasthero....


Try this though.


School of jellyfish fossilized in 7 "million-year" layers | Young Earth - Age of the Earth - Evidence Against Old Earth Arguments

 

[JacksBratt]

I don't know which part of the world you live in, but when it's time to catch a break -- I eat a meal, watch something on the idiot box and drift into dreamland.

You had time to imply that it is a mystery and discussed in quieter quarters. Not really saying nothing.

 

[Split Rock]

Ya, I can see it now, a non-creationist, non-young earth site, stating that polystrate fossils were discovered in strata measured in millions of years.

So, I cannot produce what you say. All the sites that state such a fact would come from the YEC camp.

Well played....lasthero....

What he is asking for is this:

Here is strata in this region covering millions of years... Now go ahead and find a fossil tree going through this strata.

The whole point of the "polystrate" tree argument is that dumb atheist geologists with their "evolutionary assumptions" think that every layer of strata covers millions of years. In reality, geologists do not make such assumptions. Some thick strata cover very short periods, and some thin strata cover very long periods. It depends on the strata. Professional "flood geologist" creationists either don't understand that, or pretend not to understand, so as to make what sounds to the uninformed masses like a convincing argument.

 

[JacksBratt]

Bare links are not allowed in these forums.

Can you discuss the evidence or not?

Evidence litters the internet. You will never accept it as it is, for the most part, on web pages that you considered biased.

I could be here for hours presenting my finds from all kinds of sources, however, I have better things to do today besides being told that my sources are not up to your standards.

To say that there is no evidence of a global flood is like saying the moon doesn't reflect the sun.

 

[JacksBratt]

What he is asking for is this:

Here is strata in this region covering millions of years... Now go ahead and find a fossil tree going through this strata.

The whole point of the "polystrate" tree argument is that dumb atheist geologists with their "evolutionary assumptions" think that every layer of strata covers millions of years. In reality, geologists do not make such assumptions. Some thick strata cover very short periods, and some thin strata cover very long periods. It depends on the strata. Professional "flood geologist" creationists either don't understand that, or pretend not to understand, so as to make what sounds to the uninformed masses like a convincing argument.

It doesn't matter if it's a tree or an animal. Any organism that occupies layers of strata that "supposedly" show millions of years of time passing, debunk the whole million of years of time claim.

The link I provided shows jellyfish existing in million years of strata. A whole school, existing in two layers supposedly millions of years of time between them. I can't imagine jellyfish lasting much more than a couple of weeks if they weren't eaten.

 

[lasthero]

Ya, I can see it now, a non-creationist, non-young earth site, stating that polystrate fossils were discovered in strata measured in millions of years.

So, I cannot produce what you say. All the sites that state such a fact would come from the YEC camp.

And would be made by people who've never actually studied the rocks they're talking about. Have you ever seen any creationists doing a dig for these trees? Is there anything stopping them from doing it? Do they not have the money?

Creationists sites claim that these trees are going through millions of years of strata, but they never source that claim. They never show how they know that's what's been found. You don't find that a little suspicious? How would they know that?

 

[lasthero]

It doesn't matter if it's a tree or an animal. Any organism that occupies layers of strata that "supposedly" show millions of years of time passing, debunk the whole million of years of time claim.

No geologist claims that all layers have to be laid down over long periods of times. Some geologic processes lay down things rather quickly, like, for instance in swamps, where the geography is constantly shifting around. This is no secret. Creationists just pretend like it is.

The link I provided shows jellyfish existing in million years of strata. A whole school, existing in two layers supposedly millions of years of time between them. I can't imagine jellyfish lasting much more than a couple of weeks if they weren't eaten.

At no point in the actual paper written by the man who studied it does he claim that they're all the same school of jellyfish.