Evolution is proven false!

[GoldenBoy89]

How can all mass and energy just come out of nothing? I never see that happening nowadays, only when a new finger is created in a healing service in the Name of Jesus.

Have you ever really seen truly, absolutely nothing? As in, the complete absence of all matter and energy?

I know I haven't... Everywhere I look, there is matter and energy. Everywhere.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Have you ever really seen truly, absolutely nothing? As in, the complete absence of all matter and energy?

I know I haven't... Everywhere I look, there is matter and energy. Everywhere.

What is a ghost*?

---
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost

'....Besides denoting the human spirit or soul, both of the living and the deceased, the Old English word is used as a synonym of Latin spiritus also in the meaning of "breath" or "blast" from the earliest attestations (9th century). It could also denote any good or evil spirit, i.e. angels and demons; the Anglo-Saxon gospel refers to the demonic possession of Matthew 12:43 as se unclæna gast. Also from the Old English period, the word could denote the spirit of God, viz. the "Holy Ghost". The now prevailing sense of "the soul of a deceased person, spoken of as appearing in a visible form" only emerges in Middle English (14th century). The modern noun does, however, retain a wider field of application, extending on one hand to "soul", "spirit", "vital principle", "mind" or "psyche", the seat of feeling, thought and moral judgement; on the other hand used figuratively of any shadowy outline, fuzzy or unsubstantial image, in optics, photography and cinematography especially a flare, secondary image or spurious signal. ....'

 

[GoldenBoy89]

What is a ghost?

If you've seen one, then you weren't exactly looking at nothing, were you?

My point is, people say matter and energy can't come from nothing yet, no one has experienced the complete absence of all matter and all energy to really say what happens in that situation. What you think you know may be completely wrong when we're talking about things no human has ever experienced.

Further, I don't believe the universe came from nothing. Obviously, something had to be there for the Big Bang to happen. I'm no cosmologist but I believe the universe has always existed in some form. The BB was simply a dramatic change in the state of the universe. But I definitely don't think matter and energy just spontaneously came into existence.

What came before the Big Bang? I have no clue. Maybe there's an intelligent being sitting on a throne, floating in empty space. Maybe there's some exotic form of matter that doesn't even exist inside our universe. I don't know and I don't think that is even something we can know as it would exist beyond our universe and thus, beyond what we could test for.

 

[SkyWriting]

Yes, I'm sure that before the fall, Adam and Eve could have survived the sulfuric acid rain on Venus...

Before The Fall, the physical world was not an issue. Just as with any gods.

 

[SkyWriting]

Zero, then. Not much call for an "all-powerful god" by that measure.

You need the energy of an atomic bomb for each 2.5 grams of mass in the cosmos.

If energy is "conserved" then where did that energy come from?

Try to stick to the science and avoid preaching.

https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Conservation_of_energy.html

The law of conservation of energy: A simple introduction

 

[SkyWriting]

(Admittedly, your premise is completely wrong -- no known laws of nature actually "oppose" life.

Lets just stick to the science.

Entropy increases and energy becomes less useful over time until everything is dead.
What exactly is the heat death of the universe and where can I find out more?


The same laws apply on other planets and moons.
Go to each of them and see how easy it is to survive.
Let us know how it works out for you.
Take some plants with you.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

If you've seen one, then you weren't exactly looking at nothing, were you?

My point is, people say matter and energy can't come from nothing yet, no one has experienced the complete absence of all matter and all energy to really say what happens in that situation. What you think you know may be completely wrong when we're talking about things no human has ever experienced.

Further, I don't believe the universe came from nothing. Obviously, something had to be there for the Big Bang to happen. I'm no cosmologist but I believe the universe has always existed in some form. The BB was simply a dramatic change in the state of the universe. But I definitely don't think matter and energy just spontaneously came into existence.

What came before the Big Bang? I have no clue. Maybe there's an intelligent being sitting on a throne, floating in empty space. Maybe there's some exotic form of matter that doesn't even exist inside our universe. I don't know and I don't think that is even something we can know as it would exist beyond our universe and thus, beyond what we could test for.

I've referred to the quote in Hebrews 11, elsewhere -- I recall a question once, in response to the words credited to Jesus, "God is a spirit" -- the question was, "What is a spirit?" No-one really managed to explain that, for the simple reason that the NT describes God in very fuzzy terms, with words like 'invisible' 'living in light unapproachable' 'all consuming fire' etc.

Through the incarnation (the enfleshing of God*), which is said to have occurred after the initial creation of the heavens and earth (John 1:14), it's interesting to note that co-creation of these is accomplished by this invisible God, who is also known as the 'Word' who speaks things into being. (John 1:1-18)

Now read that passage in Hebrews 11:1- and the mind boggles as to what the NT writers were trying to explain in Greek, or the OT ?

Best to worship, and leave boggling to those who enjoy being boggled.

__
* http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/the-enfleshment-of-god.html

 

[sfs]

Lets just stick to the science.

Entropy increases and energy becomes less useful over time until everything is dead.
What exactly is the heat death of the universe and where can I find out more?


The same laws apply on other planets and moons.
Go to each of them and see how easy it is to survive.
Let us know how it works out for you.
Take some plants with you.

No, let's stick to your argument. According to you, the (supposed) existence of laws opposing life is evidence for design. I want to know the logic behind that claim.

 

[Split Rock]

Sure, it's right next to that incontrovertible evidence of abiogenesis!

Agreed.... there isn't any for either.

 

[Split Rock]

The universe was designed for life but the sin of Adam and Eve cursed it.

How exactly did this sin accomplice such a task?

 

[SkyWriting]

Originally Posted by EternalDragon - The universe was designed for life but the sin of Adam and Eve cursed it.

How exactly did this sin accomplice such a task?

God originally walked with man side by side.
They were "In fellowship" or "Buds."

Adam choose to disobey the Creator of the universe and act as he
was told not to act. This led to a "falling out" between God and man.

As you can imagine, God no longer allowed the thoughts of man to
control what He had created, so Adam's sin effected the whole of
creation.

This is why people complain about injustice, sickness, and death
in the world. We all "feel" that we should be able to stop crime,
pain, and misery, but because we no longer walk with God, it is
all out of our hands.

 

[Davian]

How can all mass and energy just come out of nothing?

How it came out of "nothing" is a problem still being contemplated by astrophysicists. It may be that "nothing" is unstable, and there has to be "something".

I never see that happening nowadays, only when a new finger is created in a healing service in the Name of Jesus.

Really? Have you seen that happen?

 

[Davian]

You need the energy of an atomic bomb for each 2.5 grams of mass in the cosmos.

If energy is "conserved" then where did that energy come from?

Try to stick to the science and avoid preaching.

It never ceases to amaze me when religionists use their own terms in the pejorative.

https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Conservation_of_energy.html

The law of conservation of energy: A simple introduction

In modern cosmology, inflation theory allows for all of the energy in the observable universe to be conserved.

Inflation (cosmology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Loudmouth]

Check the other planets, my friend.
The rest of the cosmos follows he rules that exterminate life
in a new york minute.

Has God put up a magical force field around the Earth where the physical laws are different on the Earth than everywhere else in the Universe?

Is God using magic to sustain life against all known physical laws?

If the laws of the universe do not allow for life, how is the universe designed FOR life?

 

[Davian]

It took me forever to get that sentence right. There have always been arguments for (note: not 'to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt') the existence of the God of the Bible, but they're all based on a presupposition that GOD exists.

Do you know any of these arguments presented by Thomas Acquinas?*



As the OP is quite specific about what sort of God i.e. Creator God, or Intelligent Designer God, it narrows the field of play considerably.

I'm not as fluid in Christian Apologetics, as I once was, but I think it'd probably be the old school version of the COSMOLOGICAL ARGUMENT.

it's a pity that the OP is asking the question this way, as there is therefore no place for a more modern development on the Cosmological argument.

I refer:

'....In modern philosophy, the argument was defended by William Lane Craig in his 1979 book The Kalām Cosmological Argument. Since that time, the term Kalām cosmological argument has come to be used for the debate between Craig and his critics, which involves the interpretation of Big Bang cosmology and contemporary notions of causality. ....'**

William Lane-Craig's argument, runs like this:

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
2. The Universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the Universe had a cause.

So, what have you got?

---
* Aquinas’ Cosmological Argument for the Existence of God
** Cosmological argument - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Additional Viewing: The KALAM COSMOLOGICAL ARGUMENT | William Lane-Craig at the Georgia Tech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ58aloF7Bc

'On March 3rd, 2014 Dr William Lane Craig gave a lecture on the Kalam Cosmological Argument at Georgia Tech University. This video also includes the Q&A time at the conclusion of the lecture.

We welcome your comments in the Reasonable Faith forums:
Reasonable Faith Forums - Index ....'

The cosmological argument fails in that modern cosmology does not presuppose that "contemporary notions of causality" apply at the instantiation of the cosmos.

As explained to WLC by physicist Sean Carroll, the reality is that physicists do not talk about "cause and effect", they talk of "models and equations".

 

[SkyWriting]

Has God put up a magical force field around the Earth where the physical laws are different on the Earth than everywhere else in the Universe?

Is God using magic to sustain life against all known physical laws?

If the laws of the universe do not allow for life, how is the universe designed FOR life?

The earth was designed to allow for life for a short time to accommodate
Man for a short time. For this same reason, the rest of the Cosmos was
left entirely hostile, likely due to the short season for Man to repent.

 

[SkyWriting]

In modern cosmology, inflation theory allows for all of the energy in the observable universe to be conserved.

Inflation (cosmology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We all agree it is conserved.

From where did it originally manifest?

 

[SkyWriting]

No, let's stick to your argument. According to you, the (supposed) existence of laws opposing life is evidence for design. I want to know the logic behind that claim.

All laws point toward the dilution of energy,order, and intelligence.

Logically, something must have interfered or based on an equal
and opposing force resulting in our Cosmos.

 

[SkyWriting]

Originally Posted by SkyWriting View Post
You need the energy of an atomic bomb for each 2.5 grams of mass in the cosmos. If energy is "conserved" then where did that energy come from?
Try to stick to the science and avoid preaching.

It never ceases to amaze me when religionists use their own terms in the pejorative.

Just completely unable to avoid it, huh?

 

[Davian]

We all agree it is conserved.

From where did it originally manifest?

Dunno. I'm just glad to see that you have finally dropped your use of the 2nd law argument.