Evolution is mathematically impossible

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I agree, and they are running our educational system. Who but the church is going to protect our kids from them?

Given the church's record on child abuse, particularly pederasty, almost any other organization would be preferable.

 

[dad]

You may have heard about the NY measles outbreak:

"The state of emergency in Rockland county, which comes into effect at midnight on Tuesday, bars anyone under 18 who is not vaccinated against measles from public places for 30 days."
...
“Parents will be held accountable if they’re found to be in violation of the state of emergency and the focus of this effort is on the parents of these children,” Day said.

“We are urging them, now with the authority of law, to get your children vaccinated.”​

Basically New York and other places give disease sanctuary, then hypocritically turn around and try to blame parents by enacting draconian solutions. Well maybe the parents will do like New York does and disobey law! Ha.

"Before the sanctuary law, “you could be detained for any felony,” he said. “Now it’s certain felonies.”

ICE says it now focuses only on aliens who are gangsters, drug dealers, child predators or violent felons.

Critics say the city law shields undocumented aliens who commit serious offenses, including sexual abuse, prescription drug sales, bribery, money laundering, harassment, grand larceny and drunk driving, from federal detention and deportation."
https://nypost.com/2016/03/06/why-new-york-refuses-to-give-up-criminals-for-deportation/

Then there is the 'tsunami' of diseases states like New Yor are responsible for unleashing on people.

"Three unaccompanied minors were reportedly in the ICU at local hospitals in California, and two of them were diagnosed with strep pneumonia. The same naval base has experienced an outbreak of pneumonia and influenza among the unaccompanied minors at its detention facility.

The dispersal of illegal aliens, including unaccompanied minors, throughout the U.S. without proper medical screening is an appalling dereliction of duty by a president and an administration sworn to protect the health and safety of American citizens.

"Most of the border minors are being kept in overcrowded facilities ridden with poor hygiene," Dr. Elizabeth Lee Vliet, a preventive medicine specialist, told Breitbart News recently, adding, "This is the ideal condition for a viral outbreak."

"A public health crisis, the likes of which I have not seen in my lifetime, is looming," Vliet wrote recently for World Net Daily. "Drug-resistant tuberculosis is the most serious risk, but even diseases like measles can cause severe complications and death in older or immuno-compromised patients."

Border Patrol agents in Murrieta, Calif., have tested positive for tuberculosis. Hand and foot disease and Chagas disease, a tropical parasitic illness, both previously eradicated from the area, are on the rise."
Disease Tsunami Washing Across Our Border | Investor's Business Daily


And finally, New Yor has apparently the highest rate of human child sacrifice in the USA.

"New York already has one of the highest rates of abortion in the country. In New York City, about one in every three pregnancies ends in abortion.

..So abortion is allowed without any restrictions during the first and second trimesters. Later than that, the question is how fetal viability and protection of the life and health of the mother are determined. The R.H.A. says that those judgments are to be made according to “the practitioner's reasonable and good faith professional judgment based on the facts of the patient's case”; it does not impose any objective medical standard."
Explainer: What New York’s new abortion law does and doesn’t do

In other words we have a mass murdering state that gives diseases sanctuary that wants to violate parental rights. Funny you should use that as your example to hold up.
​

Looks like I'm not the only one who thinks protecting kids, and society in general, from medical ignorance and gullibility, is important.

Many folks want to protect kids from Jesus and His eternal salvation. I think Hitler claimed to want to protect folks also. He wanted to protect Germans from Gypsies, Christians, Jews..etc etc.

That's a common misconception; the evidence suggests that most people interpret the bible in ways that support their personal preconceptions of right and wrong.

People also interpret the bible according their sins. If they are men of Sodom for example, they interpret it as if that was a good thing. etc etc.

It's also been shown that people's assessment of how much God would approve or disapprove of certain actions depends on their current emotional state and recent experience, rather than remaining constant and consistent as one might expect if they were based on biblical text.

Actually right and wrong are set out very well. That is not the issue. The issue is people want to call whatever they indulge in right.

Which may be no bad thing, given what a horrible creature the God of the bible is.

There we have it, lurkers. The motive and spirit behind the opinions.

Cheers.

 

[dad]

Well a study was done that looked at the severity of punishment that subjects thought that God would expect or require for various sins and crimes;.

Jesus took all that upon Himself. We now have forgiveness for the asking. The law showed us man could not be perfect on his own away from God, and that the law could never be obeyed and kept.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well a study was done that looked at the severity of punishment that subjects thought that God would expect or require for various sins and crimes; they made the same assessments after they'd shown subjects material containing cruelty and violence, and after showing them material about loving and forgiveness. There were large differences in the severity of the punishments they thought God would require, that depended on the nature of the material they'd seen. IOW their opinion of God's will varied according to their recent experience (& emotional state). Unfortunately, I couldn't find the relevant paper after a brief search - I'll see if I can find it if I get the time.

As for interpreting the bible according to preconceptions, perhaps I should have said the evidence suggests to me that people interpret the bible in ways that support their personal preconceptions of right and wrong. It's a plausible explanation for why there are so many different interpretations of what is considered right or wrong according to the bible.

Simply calling me a liar doesn't really encourage further discussion.

dad said: "Yes. That is why God gave us the bible to know right from wrong."

You responded: "That's a common misconception"

It is not true that the bible as a moral guide is a 'common misconception'. What is true is that people aren't smart enough to take advantage of the truth of it.

And, I didn't call you a liar. I simply said you are wrong.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

And, I didn't call you a liar. I simply said you are wrong.

OK. The bible appears to be a moral guide that can be used to support a variety of conflicting moral views - how's that?

If people aren't smart enough to take advantage of it, one wonders why an omniscient God bothered...

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Given the church's record on child abuse, particularly pederasty, almost any other organization would be preferable.

Perhaps if that church allowed their ministry to marry (women of course) this problem would go away. A celebate ministry isn't good, and certainly isn't biblical.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

OK. The bible appears to be a moral guide that can be used to support a variety of conflicting moral views - how's that?

If people aren't smart enough to take advantage of it, one wonders why an omniscient God bothered...

Not all that call themselves Christian actually are. Lots of tares 'mongst the wheat.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

If people aren't smart enough to take advantage of it, one wonders why an omniscient God bothered...

In order to benefit from God's moral laws we have to give some things up. Sadly many can't or won't give up the things they love even if they would be better off. Moral decisions based on God's law are far from just feel-good decisions. They affect health, wealth, occupation or profession, family and social relationships, etc., even affecting the nation as a whole. Very important stuff; God's laws.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Basically New York and other places give disease sanctuary, then hypocritically turn around and try to blame parents by enacting draconian solutions. Well maybe the parents will do like New York does and disobey law! Ha.

"Before the sanctuary law, “you could be detained for any felony,” he said. “Now it’s certain felonies.”

ICE says it now focuses only on aliens who are gangsters, drug dealers, child predators or violent felons.

Critics say the city law shields undocumented aliens who commit serious offenses, including sexual abuse, prescription drug sales, bribery, money laundering, harassment, grand larceny and drunk driving, from federal detention and deportation."
https://nypost.com/2016/03/06/why-new-york-refuses-to-give-up-criminals-for-deportation/

Then there is the 'tsunami' of diseases states like New Yor are responsible for unleashing on people.

"Three unaccompanied minors were reportedly in the ICU at local hospitals in California, and two of them were diagnosed with strep pneumonia. The same naval base has experienced an outbreak of pneumonia and influenza among the unaccompanied minors at its detention facility.

The dispersal of illegal aliens, including unaccompanied minors, throughout the U.S. without proper medical screening is an appalling dereliction of duty by a president and an administration sworn to protect the health and safety of American citizens.

"Most of the border minors are being kept in overcrowded facilities ridden with poor hygiene," Dr. Elizabeth Lee Vliet, a preventive medicine specialist, told Breitbart News recently, adding, "This is the ideal condition for a viral outbreak."

"A public health crisis, the likes of which I have not seen in my lifetime, is looming," Vliet wrote recently for World Net Daily. "Drug-resistant tuberculosis is the most serious risk, but even diseases like measles can cause severe complications and death in older or immuno-compromised patients."

Border Patrol agents in Murrieta, Calif., have tested positive for tuberculosis. Hand and foot disease and Chagas disease, a tropical parasitic illness, both previously eradicated from the area, are on the rise."
Disease Tsunami Washing Across Our Border | Investor's Business Daily


And finally, New Yor has apparently the highest rate of human child sacrifice in the USA.

"New York already has one of the highest rates of abortion in the country. In New York City, about one in every three pregnancies ends in abortion.

..So abortion is allowed without any restrictions during the first and second trimesters. Later than that, the question is how fetal viability and protection of the life and health of the mother are determined. The R.H.A. says that those judgments are to be made according to “the practitioner's reasonable and good faith professional judgment based on the facts of the patient's case”; it does not impose any objective medical standard."
Explainer: What New York’s new abortion law does and doesn’t do

In other words we have a mass murdering state that gives diseases sanctuary that wants to violate parental rights. Funny you should use that as your example to hold up.
​

Many folks want to protect kids from Jesus and His eternal salvation. I think Hitler claimed to want to protect folks also. He wanted to protect Germans from Gypsies, Christians, Jews..etc etc.
People also interpret the bible according their sins. If they are men of Sodom for example, they interpret it as if that was a good thing. etc etc.

Actually right and wrong are set out very well. That is not the issue. The issue is people want to call whatever they indulge in right.

Cool, I haven't seen a thread Godwinned here for some time.

There we have it, lurkers. The motive and spirit behind the opinions.

For my part, I hope people will make the tiny effort necessary to avoid the return of preventable diseases. Those who really want a biblical plague can currently find one in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Not all that call themselves Christian actually are. Lots of tares 'mongst the wheat.

Ah, the 'No true Christian' fallacy again...

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Jesus took all that upon Himself. We now have forgiveness for the asking. The law showed us man could not be perfect on his own away from God, and that the law could never be obeyed and kept.

Whoosh!

The point was that people adjust their views of God's moral requirements according to their recent experience & state of mind, suggesting that, pragmatically, God is not the moral arbiter they claim/believe. The Euthyphro dilemma comes to mind.

 

[dad]

Cool, I haven't seen a thread Godwinned here for some time.

For my part, I hope people will make the tiny effort necessary to avoid the return of preventable diseases. Those who really want a biblical plague can currently find one in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

An effort would include trying to stop people with diseases from spreading them. Since child sacrifice deaths are all preventable almost, they are easily preventable with tiny effort also. Since vaccinations are known to cause deaths and side effects it is also preventable by not getting them. As for little dictators trying to force people to comply with their desires with force of law...I say phooey.

 

[dad]

Whoosh!

The point was that people adjust their views of God's moral requirements according to their recent experience & state of mind,

The bible can't be adjusted. It can be accepted or rejected.

suggesting that, pragmatically, God is not the moral arbiter they claim/believe.

Or suggesting that they reject His word and will go on loving deep sin with all their heart and with every breath till they leave this world.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Whoosh!

The point was that people adjust their views of God's moral requirements according to their recent experience & state of mind, suggesting that, pragmatically, God is not the moral arbiter they claim/believe. The Euthyphro dilemma comes to mind.

Those who do this have chosen a path that leads out of the church.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Whoosh!

The point was that people adjust their views of God's moral requirements according to their recent experience & state of mind, suggesting that, pragmatically, God is not the moral arbiter they claim/believe. The Euthyphro dilemma comes to mind.

If a Christian gets stuck in that dilemma they are likely on their way out of the church.

Christianity is more than ritual worship, it's a way of life. Can you argue with the way of life of a Christian? Do you even know what it is. Also do you consider all who profess Christ to be mature Christians, i.e. do you consider someone just entering college to be suddenly learned?

As I have related before, I rent to graduate students from many countries. Most don't know how to read and understand simple instructions. In fact many don't bother to read those instructions.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Ah, the 'No true Christian' fallacy again...

No fallacy there. No true Christian acts or talks like an unbeliever.

 

[Colter]

The recent observation of molecular convergence in many species poses impossible mathematical challenges to evolution. I would be interested to know how this can be refuted... maskofscience.com

Life comes from God, it was planted and fostered on earth long ago and evolved up to what we are now..

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

The bible can't be adjusted. It can be accepted or rejected.

Or interpreted. The subjects of the experiment were a random selection of 'ordinary' believers, who thought they took moral guidance from God (via the bible or religious instruction). Turns out they unconsciously adjusted this guidance themselves depending on circumstance.

Or suggesting that they reject His word and will go on loving deep sin with all their heart and with every breath till they leave this world.

They thought they were following what they believed to be God's guidance, but that guidance was more forgiving or more punishing depending on their own recent experience.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Those who do this have chosen a path that leads out of the church.

This was not a conscious choice, it was something they were unaware of doing. It's well known that our emotional and social behaviour is affected by things we're unaware of, and it appears that also applies to what people think their God would want.

Note that this wasn't a change at the level of what God would take to be right or wrong, but at the level of whether they thought God would forgive or punish the misdeed.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

If a Christian gets stuck in that dilemma they are likely on their way out of the church.

I was thinking of the horn of the dilemma concerning God commanding what is good, as opposed to the good necessarily being whatever God commands, i.e. God being the messenger of moral good rather than the author.

Christianity is more than ritual worship, it's a way of life. Can you argue with the way of life of a Christian? Do you even know what it is. Also do you consider all who profess Christ to be mature Christians, i.e. do you consider someone just entering college to be suddenly learned?

I grew up among a Christian community and went to Christian schools, so I'm reasonably familiar with the lifestyle and the way it develops.

As I have related before, I rent to graduate students from many countries. Most don't know how to read and understand simple instructions. In fact many don't bother to read those instructions.

Not sure how the reading habits of students are relevant...