Evolution Goes (Retro)Viral

[Presbyterian Continuist]

There's a group of atheists here. It might be worth your while to consider our anecdotes.

Possibly, but if there are enough atheists who say they became that way because they observed the hypocritical way that Christians conducted themselves with one another, it is enough to cause Christian believers to examine themselves to established whether they are being supportive and loving to one another or not. It also gives the realisation by Christians that people read them before they read the Bible.

Therefore it doesn't worry me too much that your atheist group on the forum hasn't had the same experience, because people become what they are for a multitude of reasons. But just because your group are atheist for reasons other than the way Christians treat one another, it still is a warning for Christians to be careful how they conduct themselves, because they are being watched by unbelievers to see if their conduct matches their words.

 

[Astrid]

What would be more helpful to me would be any scientific evidence you can present to me that might disprove what Dr Ross is putting forward. All you are doing so far is making generalised comments about Dr Ross' credibility, but you given no material to refute the points he is making.

Perhaps you are too busy to respond to the very
specific things Ive asked.
Helpful if you did.
Like the, " does that seem reasonable?"

I'm notcgiing to watch a video. That is not reasonable.
I don't discuss things with videos.

If you have a topic yourself, I may be interested to look at it.

Initially, I saw you saying ( very general)things like that science increasingly proves the Bible.

Which I thought remarkable as the opposite is the case
with the " big ticket" items. LIke, say, flood.

Of course prosaic stuff like geography and some
individuals names check out.

I don't know what your non prsctiing astrophysicist
says about evolution. Just saw he rejects it.

Fine. But he has no facts.* Just opinions.
ie twaddle.

I dont know why anyone is attracted to that.
Do you?

* just as if he - doing no research in biology etc
would make the greatest discovery in history, being
the disproof of evolution and, of course, proof of god.

Where's the data? The Nobel?

Seriously?

You know resesrch " due diligence"
Apply it now.

 

[Astrid]

Firstly, it was an anecdotal survey done among a group of atheists, and the results are worth considering.

Secondly, I might have got it wrong about the plant. I think it was that we share many genes with a cockroach. The point is that there are other life forms that share more genes with us humans than chimpanzees. Someone made the comment that we are closely genetically related to the banana! I already commented that the nature of our brain is closely related to that of rodents. What this shows us that our ancestors could not have been any of these life forms. Each life form contains its own unique genetic code that makes it what it is, and reproduction passes that code on to its descendants. Although it is possible to cross breed a horse with the donkey, a lion with a tiger, it is impossible to cross breed a dog with a cat, or a chimpanzee with a human. Although a chimp has two eyes, two ears, heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, two arms and legs, etc. in common with humans, there are distinct genetic differences that makes the primate a non human animal that can be taught a few tricks involving tools and rudimentary language signs, but could never be a fully functioning human who can have self consciousness, understand symbolism, and have a spirit to understand and fellowship with God.

" Might" have gotten it wrong?
Might have?

If like the rest of us you like to be taken
seriously you have to do better than that.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Possibly, but if there are enough atheists who say...

That's kind of a big if, since you're not sure whether it's a plant or a cockroach that we're more closely related to than a chimpanzee. (and in fact, whichever one you finally decide on... it's just not true.)

 

[Astrid]

That's kind of a big if, since you're not sure whether it's a plant or a cockroach that we're more closely related to than a chimpanzee. (and in fact, whichever one you finally decide on... it's just not true.)

I suppose every culture has a saying about
the naif trying to tell the veteran all about
how things are.

Clint called it "....gotta know your limitations"

(But could he have beaten Buster Scruggs to the draw?)

 

[Occams Barber]

Possibly, but if there are enough atheists who say they became that way because they observed the hypocritical way that Christians conducted themselves with one another, it is enough to cause Christian believers to examine themselves to established whether they are being supportive and loving to one another or not. It also gives the realisation by Christians that people read them before they read the Bible.

Therefore it doesn't worry me too much that your atheist group on the forum hasn't had the same experience, because people become what they are for a multitude of reasons. But just because your group are atheist for reasons other than the way Christians treat one another, it still is a warning for Christians to be careful how they conduct themselves, because they are being watched by unbelievers to see if their conduct matches their words.

For what it's worth, Christian behaviour didn't cause me to become an atheist. I've never been a Christian since I've never seen a reason to believe in gods and the supernatural generally.

Christian behaviour and values have however changed my view of Christians. Before joining CF eleven years ago I had a fairly neutral view (not bad/not good, relatively harmless) of Christians. After joining CF and seeing you all up-close I'm afraid I've lost what little respect I had - apart from a few exceptions.

I tend to judge Christians based on their behaviour rather than their theology. It may also be that I'm seeing a particularly Americanised version of Christianity due to the predominance of Americans in CF.

OB

 

[Astrid]

Growing up I hardly knew what Christians are.

Later, I had some interesting talks with a Jesuit priest.

Living in the USA I met.a few tho NYU is hardly a hotbed.

I'd say that like you, I've found the CF Christians
who show up to debate points of science a disappointing
lot.
I'd somehow expected better.

But as for being an atheist. Never was anything else ,
and I didn't need christian to influence me- which they dont.

 

[AV1611VET]

Christian behaviour and values have however changed my view of Christians. Before joining CF eleven years ago I had a fairly neutral view (not bad/not good, relatively harmless) of Christians. After joining CF and seeing you all up-close I'm afraid I've lost what little respect I had - apart from a few exceptions.

Does that apply to your atheist comrades as well? or are they exempt?

 

[AV1611VET]

I'd say that like you, I've found the CF Christians who show up to debate points of science a disappointing
lot.

I'd somehow expected better.

Not me.

I never expected better.

You fight science with science, and you're going to get vegomaticked.

When I joined, I was surprised to see Christians fighting science with science.

And it was understandable seeing them get what they deserved.

I too get what I deserve, when I venture into the academic arena.

 

[Occams Barber]

Growing up I hardly knew what Christians are.

Later, I had some interesting talks with a Jesuit priest.

Living in the USA I met.a few tho NYU is hardly a hotbed.

I'd say that like you, I've found the CF Christians
who show up to debate points of science a disappointing
lot.
I'd somehow expected better.

But as for being an atheist. Never was anything else ,
and I didn't need christian to influence me- which they dont.

Hi Estrid

I think you and I must be two of the few atheists on CF who aren't ex-Christians. In my case I lived in a nominally Christian society (Australia) but actual practising Christians were, few and far between. These days there are markedly less of them, and even nominal Christians are becoming a minority. Indifference to Christianity is booming.

I must admit that without a Christian/religious background I find it difficult to understand why Christians believe what they believe although I understand religion in the broad sense.

That's part of the reason I joined CF.

OB

 

[Occams Barber]

Does that apply to your atheist comrades as well? or are they exempt?

I find that the atheists on CF, with one notable exception (who shall be nameless), are well-informed, rational and reasonable people.

No exemptions are needed or expected.

OB

 

[AV1611VET]

I find that the atheists on CF, with one notable exception (who shall be nameless), are well-informed, rational and reasonable people.

No exemptions are needed or expected.

OB

None banned, suspended, warned, or otherwise moderated ... right?

 

[JohnEmmett]

Many scientists are saying that mankind descended genetically from an original male and female, just as the Bible says.

Yes but they lived thousands of years apart

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes but they lived thousands of years apart

Are you talking about y-Adam and mtDNA Eve?

 

[JohnEmmett]

Are you talking about y-Adam and mtDNA Eve?

You can trace everyone back to them

 

[AV1611VET]

You can trace everyone back to them

No you can't.

You can connect the dots back to them on paper.

But tracing involves drawing unbroken lines that gloss right over missing links as if they weren't there.

 

[JohnEmmett]

No you can't.

You can connect the dots back to them on paper.

…

 

[Astrid]

Hi Estrid

I think you and I must be two of the few atheists on CF who aren't ex-Christians. In my case I lived in a nominally Christian society (Australia) but actual practising Christians were, few and far between. These days there are markedly less of them, and even nominal Christians are becoming a minority. Indifference to Christianity is booming.

I must admit that without a Christian/religious background I find it difficult to understand why Christians believe what they believe although I understand religion in the broad sense.

That's part of the reason I joined CF.

OB

Similar curiosity with me.

I've done a lot of the rituals here, food offerings incense,
ghost money, you know. It's to show respect. To remind me. To be part of the culture.

I love dragon boat races! My kitchen god statue. All of it.

I know some Buddhist philosophy.

But worshipping a god, belief in the supernatural,
all that, no.

It's very exotic encountering people who do and
take it so seriously.

 

[AV1611VET]

better than Adam and Eve

LOL -- methinks Mr Ussher, et alii, would have something to say about that.

So would Luke.

 

[Occams Barber]

None banned, suspended, warned, or otherwise moderated ... right?

LOL - I am sure they are all models of propriety. I am not aware of any atheist who has been 'moderated'.

For me, being an Australian atheist on CF is sometimes an occupational hazard due to cultural misunderstandings.

OB