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Evolution doesn't matter anymore.

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pittsburghjoe

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Adam did not have a physical history of this fallen place until after he sinned. That physical history is in the past. That physical history didn't have to actually happen.

There can be a Big Bang and Evolution ..in a past history that didn't actually happen. This answers how Earth was started 7,000 years ago.

The Earth wasn't fallen to humans until original sin. That means it didn't have physical history until that point. Then it had a history ..one that didn't actually happen.

Satan was a high ranking Angel. He became prideful and thought he could be greater than God. He caused the disorder that started decoherence. This place is run by him because he started this mess.

Original sin was the start of what we consider normal time.

If you want Man created without evolution ..this is how it is done.

You need physical history to be able to claim objects and actions as your own ..to be able to sin.
 
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Leaf473

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pittsburghjoe said:
Is there something preventing God from generating a physical history after Adam and Eve's original sin ..all the way back to the Big Bang?
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I don't think there's anything preventing God from doing that.

Is this similar to the idea that if God created Adam middle aged he could easily have created the universe "middle-aged" as well?
 
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Lawrence87

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pittsburghjoe said:
Is there something preventing God from generating a physical history after Adam and Eve's original sin ..all the way back to the Big Bang?
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Nope. Indeed some early Church Fathers proposed that the being clothed in animal skins was a transformative process whereby we took on a more beast-like mode of being; having to have sex to reproduce, having to eat, defecate etc.

Modern thinkers have extended this to propose that this process was evolution, that the big bang is as far as we can see back, and that is the gate that is closed to us upon our transgression. All science can ever do is see the world as it was since the fall. The fall not only brought death, but millions of years of death.

I think this perfectly reconciles the Bible with evolution. Theistic evolution that simply proposes that evolution is the 'good' means of creation that God used. This has problems because man becomes a rising beast rather than a fallen being. We are on the up and up as it were. This conflicts with the idea that we are fallen beings. Fundamentalist creationism tries to explain away the evidence for evolution so as to make the case that the events described in Genesis actually occurred on Earth and are something we can discover by science. The problem with this is that all the science seems to suggest otherwise.

Proposing that evolution was the process by which we were clothed with animal skins maintains our fallen status, without having to deny the evidence for evolution. I think it is the superior explanation that does not result in any contradictions.
 
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DamianWarS

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pittsburghjoe said:
Is there something preventing God from generating a physical history after Adam and Eve's original sin ..all the way back to the Big Bang?
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What's the difference between generating a physical history and actual history? If God creates an orange peel doesn't that not prove the previous existence of an orange? Or are you suggesting God may create the orange peel absent the existence of the orange?
 
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Lawrence87

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I think the Bible makes it clear that mankind as the centre of creation, altered the entirety of creation by his transgression. Whatever you think was the precise means by which the appearance of having evolved occurred. I think the best way to make sense of evolution is as a result of the fall, rather than as the means of creation that God deemed 'good'.
 
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ViaCrucis

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pittsburghjoe said:
We had heavenly bodies before original sin. I'm saying it doesn't matter that they find history of bones when God could just generate the history of the universe up to that specific moment.
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The first sentence is theologically heretical according to Christianity.

The rest of the statement is philosophically and theologically horrendous. It's known as the Omphalos Argument, and it turns God into a liar.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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pittsburghjoe

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ViaCrucis said:
The first sentence is theologically heretical according to Christianity.

The rest of the statement is philosophically and theologically horrendous. It's known as the Omphalos Argument, and it turns God into a liar.

-CryptoLutheran
Click to expand...

How does it turn God into a liar? I'm providing a way for Man to be created without evolution. You want to complain about what Adam and Eve were before original sin. I'm thinking they were more than physical ..just without physical history ..which allows sin. We didn't have decay or entropy. I'm wondering if there was a need for atomic bonds.
 
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ViaCrucis

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If you woke up one day with a lifetime of memories--your mom, dad, brothers, sisters, your childhood dog, your first kiss, your first heartbreak, your years of school, all the friends you made along the way. But you didn't exist until you woke up that day, and all your memories are fake, false, not real; none of those people you remember existed, none of those experiences happened, it is all fake. Well then, your memories are lies. And if you discovered that someone did that to you, gave you fake memories, and gave you every indication they were true, indeed everything you experience and observe tells you they are true--but in fact they are not. It's all just an elaborate illusion. Then what would you call that person who deceived you, who gave you fake memories and then put you in a world in which everything you see and feel and experience agrees with your fake memories--but it too is just part of the illusion?

Such a someone would be a liar. A deceiver. They are giving you not a real universe, but only the illusion of one.

If God is the Maker of heaven and earth, and if heaven and earth are nothing more than an illusion, then that makes God a liar.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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pittsburghjoe

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Right, let's throw away a perfectly good idea that demonstrates how 7,000 years for Earth is fine. It's like you don't want us to have real answers.
The physical brain is mostly a playback device ..it is converting the will of the soul.
 
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ViaCrucis

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pittsburghjoe said:
Right, let's throw away a perfectly good idea that demonstrates how 7,000 years for Earth is fine. It's like you don't want us to have real answers.
Click to expand...

Perhaps have the humility to acknowledge that simply because you make something up doesn't make it credible, or a good answer to a question.

If you want to understand how the universe operates, understand science.
If you want to understand matters pertaining to theology, understand theology.

Instead of getting upset when people challenge you by presenting evidence and counter-arguments, try to build better arguments, and when or if you happen to be wrong in an assumption, gracefully accept that and then modify your beliefs accordingly.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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