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Evolution/Creation on Trial

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Justatruthseeker

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It's called genetic recombination, and it is the reason why sex is an advantageous strategy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_recombination
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_recombination

Sure is, and it's done by breed mating with breed producing new breeds within the species. And has nothing to do with evolution,

"Most recombination is naturally occurring."


Are you still referring to the central dogma of DNA->RNA->Protein?

No, he's just referring to the evolutionary dogma that one can do anything without the other already in place with the abilities to interact.
 
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Smidlee

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If you are going to cite research, please actually cite it. Don't just vaguely assert "Scientist X sez" and make me do all the legwork. I couldn't find the peer-reviewed paper where Shapiro claimed that mutations are non-random; what I did find was numerous people pointing out that he's kind of a crank. The idea that mutations are fundamentally non-random is unsupported and makes no sense given the paradigm of how mutations are formed, and there are numerous experiments (such as bacteria gaining antibiotic resistance genes through mutation despite no exposure to that antibiotic) that show just how random it is.

But even if the mutations weren't completely random, it should still form a nested hierarchy fairly consistently. And hey - the methods for this are all really easy. There's a ton of cladogram programs online (the video cited one, and others are a quick google search away), and you can play around with making X% of the mutations non-random to see where the threshold is. Would be an interesting (if rather pointless) experiment. I strongly encourage you to actually do the legwork to back up your claims, rather than to just throw them out apropos of nothing.
Living systems are a lot more complex than simple computer programs. Evolutionist can not back up their claims that evolution has to produce a nested hierarchy they can only assume it. They expect those who doesn't believe in their story to prove it couldn't have happen.

Your video assume you can compare human DNA with another creature DNA just like you would compared human DNA with another human DNA. It assumes what makes you human is totally your DNA. Note that's a assumption not a fact. If you put human DNA in a chicken egg it's a scientific fact the chicken egg will try to develop a chicken and not a human.

Adding spider DNA into a man will not create Spider Man for the simple reason DNA is only part of the information contain in a living organism.


The explanation is that descent with modification necessarily leads to a single natural cladogram which is the most parsimonious that will line up with the descent. We have the mathematical models to prove this, as detailed in the video. This is not some assumption, this is a proven mathematical theorem.
These mathematical models are way too simplistic and are totally based on evolution assumptions. It's the same as those mathematical models that claims an eyeball can evolved in 250,000 generations.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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If you are going to cite research, please actually cite it. Don't just vaguely assert "Scientist X sez" and make me do all the legwork. I couldn't find the peer-reviewed paper where Shapiro claimed that mutations are non-random; what I did find was numerous people pointing out that he's kind of a crank. The idea that mutations are fundamentally non-random is unsupported and makes no sense given the paradigm of how mutations are formed, and there are numerous experiments (such as bacteria gaining antibiotic resistance genes through mutation despite no exposure to that antibiotic) that show just how random it is.

But even if the mutations weren't completely random, it should still form a nested hierarchy fairly consistently. And hey - the methods for this are all really easy. There's a ton of cladogram programs online (the video cited one, and others are a quick google search away), and you can play around with making X% of the mutations non-random to see where the threshold is. Would be an interesting (if rather pointless) experiment. I strongly encourage you to actually do the legwork to back up your claims, rather than to just throw them out apropos of nothing.



The explanation is that descent with modification necessarily leads to a single natural cladogram which is the most parsimonious that will line up with the descent. We have the mathematical models to prove this, as detailed in the video. This is not some assumption, this is a proven mathematical theorem.

Why, it only took me 10 seconds to find that and a hundred others.

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-011-4156-7_19

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/(SICI)1098-2264(199602)15:2<77::AID-GCC1>3.0.CO;2-0/abstract

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=non+random+mutations&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,37

Why would a random mutation form a nested hierarchy - it's random, we would expect to see chaos - when nested hierarchies are observed to occur in breeding pairs - not through mutation? You do realize the only empirical observation we have is of breed mating with breed producing new breeds (variation) within the species, do you not?

Why are you confusing different breeds in the fossil record as separate species? Why are you classifying finches that all interbreed and have been doing so since they got to the islands as separate species? What science are you relying on to make this claim? The only science we have just says they named them in their rush to get their names in the books as the discoverer of a new species - before they even bothered to study them.

Just like they did with claimed human links, just like they did with babies and adults of the same species. Just like they still do - all to support a theory falsified long ago.

EDIT: Added the sources to take away those strawmen.
 
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Smidlee

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Usually and I don't know about you, but when one person asks a question first, that would be the first question to be answered. If you are not willing to answer a simple question, why would you expect anyone to answer yours?
My question is the most important since it deals with man which is the ones asking questions the begin with.
 
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justlookinla

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It is precisely the strength of the OBJECTIVE evidence, as to why 99% of Phd level biologists, agree that evolution happens.

Most people believe evolution happens. Many don't believe Darwinist evolution happens though and many scientists challenge the view.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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It is precisely the strength of the OBJECTIVE evidence, as to why 99% of Phd level biologists, agree that evolution happens.

It is precisely relying on that logical fallacy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Those experts once told everyone the Milky-Way was the entire universe - with the math and observational evidence to back up the claim. Sadly they were all wrong.

Claims of majority makes right is a strawman of the highest order.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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What a designer could do and what a designer did is the issue. There would be no reason for there to be a mixture of mammal and bird features as both in Genesis are created in their own kind.

As you say, the features we see cannot be used as evidence for a designer.


Yes it does in fact. The Genesis Narrative predicts kinds after kinds which looking at the evidence shows that there are kinds that came before the ones mentioned in the Narrative.

You cannot say that without an actual definition of what a "kind" is that we can use to identify what species are what "kind".
 
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Oncedeceived

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It is precisely relying on that logical fallacy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Those experts once told everyone the Milky-Way was the entire universe - with the math and observational evidence to back up the claim. Sadly they were all wrong.

Claims of majority makes right is a strawman of the highest order.
Just for clarification, you do believe that evolution happens, life forms have the capability to adapt to their environment? I was just curious as to your own personal ideas on evolution.
 
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Smidlee

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It is precisely relying on that logical fallacy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Those experts once told everyone the Milky-Way was the entire universe - with the math and observational evidence to back up the claim. Sadly they were all wrong.

Claims of majority makes right is a strawman of the highest order.
The majority of those biologist who involved in the ENCODE project believes over 80% of human genome were functional and DarwinisT attack the results as if ENCODE was done by creationist. :)
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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It is precisely relying on that logical fallacy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Those experts once told everyone the Milky-Way was the entire universe - with the math and observational evidence to back up the claim. Sadly they were all wrong.

Claims of majority makes right is a strawman of the highest order.

But they were not wrong that there was a Milky Way and what it was like. It's just that they discovered . . . . more.
 
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Oncedeceived

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As you say, the features we see cannot be used as evidence for a designer.




You cannot say that without an actual definition of what a "kind" is that we can use to identify what species are what "kind".
I most certainly can say that. I just can't know for certain what a kind is.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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You are just using scientific snobbery. Science is science, facts are facts. ID does make testable predictions, one such prediction was that "junk DNA" would have function. Scientific research is supporting this prediction.

ID would predict ALL the junk DNA would have function, and science is not supporting that.
 
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