Evolution and total depravity.

[-57]

Also, -57, you should read more carefully my earlier posts. I view mind and matter as one, not two separate realities. hence, all of matter has a soul or subjective side. Even atoms have tiny minds. Obviously, this includes animals. Everything in existence has some real degree of freedom and choice, however great or small it may be.

Hoghead...your post and what you think are meaningless with out scriptural support. If your standing in a pulpit preaching your "views"...each menber of the congregation has the right to ask you to bibically support what you are preaching....Can you? So far all you have posted was opinion.

 

[theFijian]

I really can'y believe you actually asked that question.

Do animals have the spirit breathed into them like Adam had?
Can animals choose to disobey God?

...do you know what total depravity means?

So what does 'Spirit breathed' have to do with evolution?

 

[Hoghead1]

You are forgetting, -57, that the Bible is not a book of metaphysics. It dos not address questions, such as what is the basic structure of reality, is it all mind, matter, both, etc. Hence, I realize I am working outside of Scripture. Occupational necessity if you want to work in metaphysics. I add that the Bible tells us very little about how God is built, so to speak. hence, the classical Christian model of picture of God as he or she is in his or her own nature came largely from Hellenic philosophy, not Scripture, and in many ways contradicted Scripture.

 

[Hoghead1]

My position, theFigian, is that mind and matter are one, not two separate realities. There is no matterless minds or mindless matter. Hence, everything in creation has a choice, and then everything can choose to deviate from god's initial aim for that occasion.

 

[-57]

So what does 'Spirit breathed' have to do with evolution?

When did God breath the spirit into the monkeys? You know, in a way different than what Genesis teaches.

 

[Hoghead1]

God doesn't breathe in anything in order for monkeys to have souls. The goes with the territory, as all matter has a subjective side. However, one might see this idea of breathing in something as representing the fact that God presents an aim, a lure, for all these cells to pull together and become a monkey.

 

[theFijian]

When did God breath the spirit into the monkeys? You know, in a way different than what Genesis teaches.

God didn't breath his spirit into monkeys. Still don't know why you equated being able to think with having the breath of God's spirit

 

[Hoghead1]

I think he has the naive idea that unless God breathes in something, the monkeys would just be soulless machines.

 

[-57]

Gen 2:7 then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.

...this isn't evolutionism.

 

[Hoghead1]

Yes, it is evolutionary. The dust evolved into a human being. That's about as evolutionary as you can get.

 

[-57]

Yes, it is evolutionary. The dust evolved into a human being. That's about as evolutionary as you can get.

I understand you're allowed to edit and change the bible to make it fit your concepts.....keeping in mind I'm not....What you posted isnot what the bible says.

 

[-57]

God didn't breath his spirit into monkeys. Still don't know why you equated being able to think with having the breath of God's spirit

You're kinda dancing around the issue. But, that's OK....you don't have an answer and need more time. I get it.

 

[theFijian]

You're kinda dancing around the issue. But, that's OK....you don't have an answer and need more time. I get it.

We don't all have as much free time as some to be able to spend hours endless debating foolish controversies (Titus 3), quite inconveniently I have a wife, family, job which takes up a fair bit of my time. But I can understand why you are so eager to be better educated, what is it you're struggling with?

 

[-57]

We don't all have as much free time as some to be able to spend hours endless debating foolish controversies (Titus 3), quite inconveniently I have a wife, family, job which takes up a fair bit of my time. But I can understand why you are so eager to be better educated, what is it you're struggling with?

And you're still dancing.

 

[theFijian]

And you're still dancing.

No need to be coy, what is it you're struggling with?

 

[-57]

No need to be coy, what is it you're struggling with?

I struggle with so-called christians who feel evolutionism has trumped the Word of God..and change the Word of God forcing it to conform with evolutionary views......For instance in a previous post I asked you this, "The Calvinist says we are born dead in our sins and trespasses...People are already condemned.
Tell me, in the supposed evolutionary history of mankind.....when did that happen? How did it happen?"

Your reply....after completly dismissing the words of Paul as well as Gen 3...."Who knows exactly when, probably a couple hundred thousand years ago. How did it happen? Not sure, one of the few occasions I'm quite comfortable with 'Goddidit'"

Interesting, you throw away the bible explanation for a scientific uncertainty.

 

[Papias]

I don't agree, Papias. For example, I could easily be labeled a TE, though I would use another term, and I do not believe original sin is a biblical concept at all or makes any real sense in the first place. Rebellion against God is not necessarily wrong. God wants his or her creatures to think for themselves and make their own decisions. Hence, God respects the decisions of his or her creatures, just as a loving parent respects the decisions of his or her offsprings. So suppose the parent wants the offspring to move in such-and-such a direction, but the offspring wants to move in a different direction. In many cases, that may be OK and the parent should respect it. For example, my sister-in-law is very bright, did terrible in school, got a college scholarship and blew it, spending most of her time socializing. She got married and is happy being a housewife. I and members of her family wish she would have gotten through college, but we respect her decision not to go that way. Same with God and creation. Again, rebellion is not necessarily bad. Also, ne needs to remember that Adam and Eve sinned upward, toward gaining more knowledge.

OK. I don't see how any of that answers the question of the OP - how TE's defend/arrive at the doctrine of original sin. Denying the doctrine of original sin itself is another discussion, for which a new thread can be started....

In Christ-

Papias