Evolution - and their take over/destruction of science

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I mean think about it, imagine using Darwin's "On the Origin of Species" to run a family, especially an entire Country!? We seen the horrors his books and his Godless ideologies have caused in Nazism, and the effects still felt today in Communism.

What you just wrote? All of that? Is just a complete and utter lie.

 

[Strathos]

What you just wrote? All of that? Is just a complete and utter lie.

Some people don't seem to realize that Nazis and Communists were complete opposites.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Some people don't seem to realize that Nazis and Communists were complete opposites.

 

[Speedwell]

Some people don't seem to realize that Nazis and Communists were complete opposites.

And that the Soviet Union outlawed Darwin's theory, with disasterous consequences for their agricultural economy.

 

[Arius]

Of course the guidestones say nothing about the white race or its putative superiority to other races. That's creationist doctrine.

Creationist doctrine, or do you mean Christian Doctrine? The difference may be like night and day, depends on the topic?

The Stones scream of the white race, a specific one. I can show you if you want, but you will hate me for it!

I don't know, but I doubt it was the Black Panthers that put those Stones up!?
Here is another similar controversial stone erected with similar message of: "Human population reduction"

Video: Goat-Headed Satan Statue Unveiled in Detroit

here, from a different perspective;

Notice no blacks in the crowd!?

 

[Speedwell]

Creationist doctrine, or do you mean Christian Doctrine? The difference may be like night and day, depends on the topic?

All I have to do is point to your creationist hero, Judge Roy Moore, on the campaign trail waxing nostalgic about the good old days before the Civil War.

The Stones scream of the white race, a specific one. I can show you if you want, but you will hate me for it!

go ahead and show me; so what? Racism is by no means restricted to Bible-belt creationists.

 

[Arius]

Google "observed speciation".

from the video: "I will be discussing speciation, a natural process by which new species emerge. Over the last hundred years there have been hundreds of documented, 'observed' examples of new species emerging. .. blah, blah, .. mosquitoes, moths, and of course Darwin's finches, .. and so on"

Question, for the hundredth time:
Did any of the 8 million scientists alive today, or those who have passed on over the past 100 years ever witness any of these 'species type' like a short beaked finch evolve a longer beak, .. huh? ANYONE, EVER, have they? Let alone observe any "distinct species like a gorilla speciate into another distinct species like a human".

This whole thing you shown me isn't even about Evolution in the general sense, it's about different breeds, like the different dogs, and horses and pigeons we get from the breeders. Or frogs and bugs like in the video, yet doesn't show even ONE as they speciate!? This doesn't even have anything to do with the "science of evolution", you know, where I am asking you guys to justify calling me and my children animals that belong to the ape family.
Yes, the Bible tells us that both we humans and all the animals were created from the same source "dust" and by the same Designer and Creator, .. and even a child, .. no, even an infant can tell the difference between an animal, and their own parents, which are human. Calling people animals is not nice!

The origins of life are unknown.

"And That's Final!" right!?, .. I get it. But that there is not what a real scientist would say. That is what a person defending his Religious blind faith would say.

 

[Arius]

All I have to do is point to your creationist hero, Judge Roy Moore, on the campaign trail waxing nostalgic about the good old days before the Civil War.

Again, I keep telling you guys to please check into what I have been saying, that "Creationism" and "Christianity" is NOT the same thing!
Just like the "Evolution theory" and the word "science" is not the same thing, or has anything to do with science. To find a fossil of a lizard and name it a "fossil of a lizard" is science, but the "millions and billions of years ago" stories that those religious fanatics like Judge Roy Moore attach to the fossil is NOT.

go ahead and show me; so what? Racism is by no means restricted to Bible-belt creationists.

Again, don't conflate Christians with Creationists. As I have shown you, the Creators of the Christian Religion are now coming out of the closet and admit who they really are, supporters, and even the inventors of Evolution and the Big Bang story!

So you see, your BB-Evolution Religion is really just another of the tens of thousands of Christian Denominations.

 

[Jimmy D]

Did any of the 8 million scientists alive today, or those who have passed on over the past 100 years ever witness any of these 'species type' like a short beaked finch evolve a longer beak, .. huh? ANYONE, EVER, have they?

Yes, they did. I have presented you with an example of exactly that in this very thread.

It has occurred over only 30 generations of the particular bird and has not only been observed but the particular mutation responsible has been identified.

So I have to wonder why you wrote such a thing? Do you not bother to read the scientific evidence presented to you? do you not understand it or are you just being dishonest?

Why on earth do you think people are going to waste their time with you if show absolutely no consideration for what they post?

What a joke.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

This is old, but I will bite.

1) Man has the necessary intelligence to understand space time, comprehensible

We can see that Humankind has the necessary intelligence to understand space time sufficient that our theories about it can make accurate predictions. At present we appear to have a very good understanding of space time, and there is no obvious limit being approached concerning how deep our understanding can go.

2) Events that occurred in the past, occur today in exactly the same manner

You'd have to define what you mean by 'exactly in the same manner'. Some things are the same, some things are different. We can look at volcanoes today and then look at the remains of ancient volcanoes, and this is good evidence that vulcanism works by the same process now that it did in the distant past. However, bombardment of the earth by meteors happens far less frequently now than in the past. So that is changed. Perhaps you need to define exactly which events you mean.

3) The speed of light is a constant

We have good theories of physics, good because they have predicational accuracy and have survived many attempts to disprove them, that say that the speed of light is a constant in an unchanging medium. Note that as a bland statement 'the speed of light is a constant' is not true, as light moves at different speeds in different mediums. E.g. it is much slower in glass than it would be in a vacuum. It appears that there may be other things that can affect the speed of light.

4) There are no Gods or a spiritual realm that influences space time

This is a reasonable assumption given that there is no evidence of such Gods or such a spiritual realm, and that we understand the tendency of human beings to create religion, and that these religions are not fixed (as they would be if due to divine revelation), but differ in different cultures and change over time as they would do if they were myths. If you feel that there are Gods and/or a spiritual realm, then perhaps you could provide objective verifiable evidence that supports this.

5) The axioms of mathematics are true statements

As we invented mathematics and as part of that defined what is true and what is not, the axioms of mathematics are true. However, the mathematics that we have developed has proved stupendously effective in understanding and predicting the world. Can you suggest any way in which our mathematics could be changed to better match reality? If not, what is the point of raising this?

I have issues with every discipline of science.

I can see that. Taking a wild guess, I suspect that you wish to maintain having issues with every discipline of science so that you can maintain your beliefs, even though if you wanted to your issues could easily be solved by actually understanding science.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

5) The axioms of mathematics are true statements

As we invented mathematics and as part of that defined what is true and what is not, the axioms of mathematics are true.

Yup; that's what the axioms of a formal logical or mathematical system are by definition - statements or propositions that are true in that system.

 

[Arius]

Or maybe I just can't make myself clear enough, now THAT could very well be possible, for I had very, very little "formal education". So what I do is look up definitions of words, and try to phrase it like you educated fellow debaters would phrase it.
I'm a little like that Bumblebee Transformer, I use whatever means that I can to get my message across.

It is here that I found inconsistencies with scientists and even Science Professors statements, in lectures, in documentaries, in science-papers etc. Not just inconsistencies, but misconceptions, paradoxes, opposite meanings, .. and so on.
When I point these out in either e-mails, or in remarks, or in debates, or over the phone conversations, they 'claim in defense' that; I'm just ignorant of the subject, .. like you guys treat me here, like a dummy ape who just can't learn.

I get the same old: "Learn more about evolution. Or, you don't understand quantum theory. Or, where the hll did you get that idea from?" This is where I show them from their own ideas/words and this is where their pride kicks in; ("can't very well let some unschooled peon destroy my entire reputation") so the name calling, ridiculing begins, and ends with a hang up, or with being shunned, .. or my U-Haul rigged where on the Interstate 65mph speed limit both my steering and brakes go out at the same time. I don't just mean go manual, but where the steering wheel spins free, and the brake peddle falls and stay on the floor.​

Yes, they did. I have presented you with an example of exactly that in this very thread.

It has occurred over only 30 generations of the particular bird and has not only been observed but the particular mutation responsible has been identified.

So if I shown you a Great Dane and a teacup poodle, or a Nazi supremacist and a black girl and shown how these two could no longer mate, you would consider that "speciation" also, .. is that what you're saying?

Again, please show me where the short beaked finch, either lays an egg of a longer beaked offspring, or one day it morphs into a longer beaked finch? That would be "observing and documenting speciation". In other words, that would be considered science.

Instead, .. what Evolutionists are saying is that: "That is NOT how evolution/speciation works Arius, besides, if that ever happened, that would disprove evolution! THIS is how speciation/evolution happens:" and you direct me to that site. Or you guys show us a bunch of different fossils, or pictures of a white suburban lady amongst a bunch of apes and point to an imaginary, nonexistent creature no one knows what species it was, and call it the "Common Ancestor", and say: "That's how evolution/speciation works!"

Oh, and finding a bunch of short beaked finches and line them up with gradually longer beaks is not acceptable either. I can show you just from my family of 7 siblings height difference from 5'5" to 5'11".

So I have to wonder why you wrote such a thing? Do you not bother to read the scientific evidence presented to you? do you not understand it or are you just being dishonest?

Why on earth do you think people are going to waste their time with you if show absolutely no consideration for what they post?

What a joke.

Scientific evidence??
A joke??
No my friend, it's what Evolutionist use to prove their evolution of gorillas to human is a joke. I asked you guys to show me how Evolutionists can justify calling me and my family "animals, apes" whose "ancestors were rats."
Now I would understand it being a joke, I can both take a joke, and dish it out, but as I have shown you how this Evolution Religion has demoralized, demonized, and mostly dehumanized humans over its relatively short existence, and shown how many hundreds of millions of 'brutal deaths' it has caused (Communism, black-white discrimination) and the list goes on, to ignore all that evidence, shows absolutely no consideration to what I posted, and continue, without any scientific basis to call me an "animal, and my family apes, descended from rats, .. over a very long period of time!"

So either fess up and apologize for such evil and dehumanization of your fellow humans, or cough up some actual scientific evidence of Evolution/speciation besides skull & bones, or locking up Negros in zoos holding baby apes. Or what you shown me a bunch of bugs and lizards and frogs. Yes, thank you, as we can see from the 7 billion living people on earth, every one of them different from the other that our Creator God loves 'variety', and created us, and everything else on Earth with variations.

Thank you, and Please, show speciation/evolution as it happens, and PLEASE stick to human-evolution because I look nothing like those frogs, or bugs, or rats even if they claim our DNA only differs 6% (or whatever)

Just like a car and a motorcycle, they both have the same nuts and bolts and metals, leather, glass, plastic, but you wouldn't confuse a car with a motorcycle, or say that the car evolved from a motorcycle, right? Unless I shown how a motorcycle one day morphed into a car!?

We, just like our Creator in whose image we were created, use the same general blueprint, same nuts and bolts to make many different things.

Again, please show me actual speciation, not just keep claiming "it happens, .. really Arius, look at all these different bugs and frogs, and the millions of evolving fossils!"

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

So if I shown you a Great Dane and a teacup poodle, or a Nazi supremacist and a black girl and shown how these two could no longer mate, you would consider that "speciation" also, .. is that what you're saying?

Look at the bolded part. If you claim that those two people are different species, then you're an idiot.

 

[Arius]

After a major extinction God repopulates the earth with a remnant or 10% of the population. That would amount to 700 million people to repopulate the earth for the next 1,000 year.

I'm sorry my friend, but can you elaborate a little more on what you just said and how it relates to what I said? I am very interested in what you have to say, to understand what you mean?

Thank you, and God bless you!

 

[Arius]

A dog can't evolve into a fish. A dog might evolve into an aquatic mammal like an otter or a dolphin, but it would still be a member of the family Canidae.

But fish can evolve lungs, legs, arms and climb out of the water, climb a tree and evolve into apes, fall off the tree, stand up on hind legs and morph into humans, right?
Don't forget the story of the: "Amoeba and the magical primordial soup!"

 

[Arius]

No, that's just a picture, actually. Pictures aren't "delusional". They just are.

So I shouldn't confuse my daughters ex-boyfriends infatuation with skull & bones posters, t-shirts, drawings, .. with wrist slashing and other suicidal tendencies, correct?

Does it?
I just thought it was a funny picture.

Funny? Your mind works in mysterious ways.

Okay.

Your mind works in mysterious ways.

Well, at least we agree on that, right?

 

[AnotherAtheist]

It is here that I found inconsistencies with scientists and even Science Professors statements, in lectures, in documentaries, in science-papers etc. Not just inconsistencies, but misconceptions, paradoxes, opposite meanings, .. and so on.
When I point these out in either e-mails, or in remarks, or in debates, or over the phone conversations, they 'claim in defense' that; I'm just ignorant of the subject, .. like you guys treat me here, like a dummy ape who just can't learn.

I get the same old: "Learn more about evolution. Or, you don't understand quantum theory. Or, where the hll did you get that idea from?" This is where I show them from their own ideas/words and this is where their pride kicks in; ("can't very well let some unschooled peon destroy my entire reputation") so the name calling, ridiculing begins, and ends with a hang up, or with being shunned, .. or my U-Haul rigged where on the Interstate 65mph speed limit both my steering and brakes go out at the same time. I don't just mean go manual, but where the steering wheel spins free, and the brake peddle falls and stay on the floor.​

Again, please show me where the short beaked finch, either lays an egg of a longer beaked offspring, or one day it morphs into a longer beaked finch? That would be "observing and documenting speciation". In other words, that would be considered science.

The problem here is that the bolded bit (your emphasis) shows that you don't understand evolution.

You complain that people tell you to 'Learn more about evolution', but until you understand evolution, you can't sensibly discuss it.

You complain about people treating you as a 'dummy'. Well, everyone can be wrong, or ignorant. The smart people realise that they are wrong or ignorant and do something about it. Stupid people don't, and keep on repeating the same mistakes.

If you want us to treat you as smart, not stupid, then one very important thing you can do is: don't act stupid. We only (I presume) know you from these forums, and hence will judge you based on what we see you write here.

You say that you are finding inconsistencies. Unfortunately, you only find inconsistencies in your personal misunderstandings of these things.

Here's an important hint: Nobody says that speciation occurs by one species suddenly giving birth to another species. Populations of individuals evolve as a group, and no parent is ever a different species from its offspring.

Right: There is information for you. And what are you going to do? Read up on that and understand that aspect of evolution from now on (smart), or just keep on making the same completely wrong claims and straw men (stupid)?

It's up to you.

 

[Arius]

Simply because I do not believe the gospels were hand written by God.

God never needed to write the New Testament, the death and resurrection event was so powerful of itself. That nothing could stop the gospels and letters being written. One very, very, clever God. The New Testament overall is an overwhelming testimony of Jesus, yet room is also included for the rejection of Jesus. A clever God who new exactly what He was doing when He came to visit us.

A foolish message laced with divine power to save anyone stupid enough to put their trust in His Son.

I have been overcome by God's brilliance in the timing and the execution of that death and resurrection. In addition, the extraordinary groundwork God laid down in the shadows and types embedded in the history of the nation of Israel, perfectly brilliant.

Not too much evidence and not too little, in the end, more than sufficient for any doubter.

@klutedavid - A foolish message laced with divine power to save anyone stupid enough to put their trust in His Son.

Wow, .. this is another reason I love Debating Forums, how differently people could express themselves, and throw you into a spin. I have no idea where you stand with the Gospels??

Wait, .. you said: "A clever God who new exactly what He was doing when He came to visit us." which means you are a Trinitarian, correct?

 

[Speedwell]

But fish can evolve lungs, legs, arms and climb out of the water, climb a tree and evolve into apes, fall off the tree, stand up on hind legs and morph into humans, right?

Right you are. Except for one thing: if another fish did it all the way up to bipedal terrestrial intelligent creatures they might be very like us, but they would not be Homo Sapiens. They wouldn't have "morphed into humans" but into another species similar to humans.

 

[Arius]

What you just wrote? All of that? Is just a complete and utter lie.

It's history, .. as I have shown clips of it.
This is debate, not nice to call someone's posts "a complete and utter lie" without showing how it is a lie.
Take the evidence I have provided about this Evolution Religions history, and show us how it has nothing to do with my statement?
Why don't you start an OP something like: "Can Creationists show similarities in Satan worship and Evolution theory?"
Let me know if you do, and I will be glad to show the striking similarities between the two from historical evidence.