Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
We grow in struggles.The amount of disagreement, discourse and ambiguity raised by scripture is very disconcerting.
No wonder we suffer from so many denominations.
If only God had sent a clear and concise word where there was no doubt of interpretation, literal vs literalism, allegory vs parable, poem vs history.
Why oh why... sigh...
How do you line up Evolution with what the Bible says in Genesis about creation.
The question would be: at which point in anthropological evolution did obeying the authority of the Creator, rather than the dictates of natural instincts, become responsibility? Before that point would be the innocence of Eden, and after that point living under the curse of disobedience.The first man may have been a hybrid
I think from the beginning creation was without curse and under the Creator Spirit. Adam would have lived about 10,000 years ago. Adam was under the Holy Spirit and walked with God each day and was obeying the authority of the Creator not to eat from the wrong tree. He was all set to have a sin resisting nature built into him over a long time, centuries. We would have inherited that. From his conception, he was different from animals, he had a more powerful mind and was a spirit, led by the Spirit, with the Spirit inside him like John the Baptist, he was spiritual rather than instinctive and had dominion over all the Earth to change things, so the lion and the lamb would rest together and eat grass. No more the natural violence...The question would be: at which point in anthropological evolution did obeying the authority of the Creator, rather than the dictates of natural instincts, become responsibility? Before that point would be the innocence of Eden, and after that point living under the curse of disobedience.
I think it is a myth assumed by literalists that in the beginning, there was chaos as a gradient for God to work against and from to create the universe and the planet.I'm probably older than most of the posters at this forum. I've never seen so many attempts to discredit the Books of Moses, especially Genesis, as often as I have seen in recent years. A professor I had in Bible college just released a book promoting an Old Earth. I was disappointed, to say the least.
The opening post raises a lot of questions, including some many have not thought of. If Genesis is just allegory, was it just by chance that this Book has almost 100 references to Salvation that would come to the world through the finished work of Jesus Christ? Look at Genesis 3:21. That's a reference to how Christ's blood would be a covering for our sins. Jesus' righteous has been imputed to us. He stands before God Almighty and calls us righteous and He can do this as His blood has been presented in the heavenly Holy of Holies. It's all detailed in the Book of Hebrews.
Jesus told the Jews that they were condemned by Moses because Moses had revealed Him to them! They were without excuse. (John Chapter Five.)
There is a debate referred to as Documentary Hypothesis. Look up that term and read about this. It is claimed that if Moses could even write he could not write real Babylonian or Hebrew, but wrote with arrow-shaped figures (Cuneiform - look it up). You see, according to the experts, the first five books of the Bible are based on Baylonian myths about their gods. For example, their gods were bored so they had fun torturing people with a flood. The Mitzvot, or the 613 commandments of the Torah (the Law of Moses) were taken from the Code of Hammurabi. Various Hebrew writers, at various times, assembled the Pentateuch/Torah/Books of Moses over a long period of time, including time long after the death of Moses.
The Earth is billions upon billions of years old. These Theistic Evolutionists can't see the forest for the trees. They can't accept that God has done something differently with this Earth and its occupants. There was a pre-Adamite world with giants who roamed the Earth. God had not yet breathed His breath into these human-like creatures until God decided to breath His breath into some particular living beings. We don't really know who they are but they are allegorically referred to as Adam and Eve. Just make up your own version of the truth which is what the Babylonians did, and now "Christian" esoterics and scientists have done the same thing.
After listening to Satan as led by his wife, his body became bloated out of proportion from his spirit and spirituality, he became carnal and sensual, and had difficulty with his natural appetites. Obeying the Spirit was no longer normal.
So, who is the satan whom Jesus spoke of?The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God. Our Christian understanding of the Devil is an amalgamation of the serpent of Genesis, of the Satan of Job, of the Lucifer of Isaiah, the Ahrulman of the Zoroastrian faith all of which is supported by lurid medieval fiction like Dante's "Inferno".
First off, I'm glad I found a forum specifically dedicated to this topic. Its something that I've been wanting to discuss.
How do you line up Evolution with what the Bible says in Genesis about creation.
Some Christians say Genesis should not be read literally or that its like a parable or allegory. And the language used in Genesis is written in a poetic way, similar to Psalms.
To me if evolution is fact then Adam evolved and there was no garden of eden or where did original sin occur and hence the remainder of Bible story does not line up or Jesus being crucified for mankind's 'original sin'
Interested to hear you ideas.
So, who is the satan whom Jesus spoke of?
Basically, the only far out supernatural miraculous events that are acceptable are any of those that deal with the gospel.. That would be the virgin birth, all the prophesies that Christ fulfilled, the turning water to wine, walking on water, healing anyone, feeding the 5000+, surviving the 50 lashes and then carrying His cross, dying on the cross and rising again, ascending to heaven in front of eye witnesses...and others.First off, I'm glad I found a forum specifically dedicated to this topic. Its something that I've been wanting to discuss.
How do you line up Evolution with what the Bible says in Genesis about creation.
Some Christians say Genesis should not be read literally or that its like a parable or allegory. And the language used in Genesis is written in a poetic way, similar to Psalms.
To me if evolution is fact then Adam evolved and there was no garden of eden or where did original sin occur and hence the remainder of Bible story does not line up or Jesus being crucified for mankind's 'original sin'
Interested to hear you ideas.
So, who is the satan whom Jesus spoke of? The one whom He called "a murderer from the beginning".God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the Book of Job, and here it's clear that the angel Satan is not the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney. There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. This misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:”7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” is just one quote that demonstrates this. The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God.
I understand what you are saying...I agree with your point that we should not just pick and choose what we believe but I do not agree it is all literal or none of it is true. Obviously there are many different types of language used in scripture i.e. metaphor, simile, figurative, etc. 216 at last count I am aware of. God was not kidding when He said, "come let us reason together, line upon line, precept upon precept. The problem is, many do not have the ability, humility or commitment do what is needed. Reminds me of the old adage of: Why is it called figurative? Because you have to figure it out.
No one has all the answers on this subject. The truth is that we aren't entirely certain. It is interesting to note, however, that we are discoveringe more things about evolution that don't quite line up with the way evolution has previously been understood, and certain ideas presented in the Bible seem to line up with this science. For example, recent scientific studies in epigenetics have shown that we are not entirely slaves to our genetics; in fact, the choices your relatives made can "turn on" or "turn off" certain genes that get passed on to you, and this can be undone within 2 or more generations (reminiscent of Deuteronomy 5:9).
What's more, a recent study has drastically changed the whole timeline of when humans and 90% of all other species on this planet evolved. This study revealed that every animal on Earth (save approximately 10% of all species) including humans suddenly and rapidly came into existence approximately 100,000 to 200,000 years ago following some type of massive catalyst that is still unknown to scientists. Here's an article explaining the study: https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/news/2018-05-gene-survey-reveals-facets-evolution.amp
This has lead me to understand that evolution is not as cut and dry as I have previously believed.
In any case, we have no need as Christians to feel threatened by evolution and science. It does not change the existence of God, or the fact that he created the universe, or that Jesus exists and is the Son of God.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?