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Evolution and chance

challenger

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A common creationist argument against evolution is that chance could not provide a morphological change, i.e. speciation/macroevolution, often backed up with a bizare misinterpretation of thermodynamics. The flaw in this is, of course, that evolution is not based upon chance, but upon natural selection. This is why the frequency of alleles in a population remains relatively stable unless a selection pressure occurs.

E.g. 1:
graph1.gif

Here, both extremes of variation are selected against, producing a less varied gene pool, the "normal" is selected for, so variation decreases somwhat.

E.g. 2:
graph2.gif

Here, one extreme has been selected against, so you will see a shift towards the opposite extreme in the normal.

E.g. 3:
graph3.gif

Here, the original normal is selected against, this produces a curve with two peaks, in such a situation, speciation can occur, as the original species splits into two new species over time.

Source
 

spiced

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Cross purposes on this stuff I read is based on Origins of universe as not happening by chance, but purposeful design.Different from evolution of course as I am often reminded on these boards.
In your diagram are you referring to say Dogs breeding more kinds of dogs for example and not dogs "speciating" (GW Bushism) into another form i.e Giraffe kind. Sounds silly I know.........But when I see dogs i see all kinds of dogs big dogs little dogs, fluffy dogs and dangerous dogs, but they all look like dogs.....
 
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challenger

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spiced said:
Cross purposes on this stuff I read is based on Origins of universe as not happening by chance, but purposeful design.Different from evolution of course as I am often reminded on these boards.
In your diagram are you referring to say Dogs breeding more kinds of dogs for example and not dogs "speciating" (GW Bushism) into another form i.e Giraffe kind. Sounds silly I know.........But when I see dogs i see all kinds of dogs big dogs little dogs, fluffy dogs and dangerous dogs, but they all look like dogs.....
If we're going off visuals alone, don't (for example) a chiwawa and a St. Bernards look less alike than a human and an ape?

Edited to add: of course this is irrelevant to the actual facts of the debate.
 
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Loudmouth

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spiced said:
But when I see dogs i see all kinds of dogs big dogs little dogs, fluffy dogs and dangerous dogs, but they all look like dogs.....
Really. When I see a chimp and a human, I think "look at the two apes." So I guess humans and chimps really do share a common ancestor.
 
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notto

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spiced said:
Cross purposes on this stuff I read is based on Origins of universe as not happening by chance, but purposeful design.Different from evolution of course as I am often reminded on these boards.
In your diagram are you referring to say Dogs breeding more kinds of dogs for example and not dogs "speciating" (GW Bushism) into another form i.e Giraffe kind. Sounds silly I know.........But when I see dogs i see all kinds of dogs big dogs little dogs, fluffy dogs and dangerous dogs, but they all look like dogs.....
Do you consider dogs and wolves the same kind? Why or why not? If not, where do you think dogs came from? Where they originally created as the 'dog' kind?

How about dogs and foxes, coyotes, and the tasmanian wolf?
 
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funyun

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Vance said:
I just wish I could get a clear breakdown of what the actual "kinds" are, rather than an "I know it when I see it".

That would make things a LOT clearer.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Vance again.
 
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