Evolution actually does make sense.

[ByHisGraceForever]

I was here before, and because of this place I actualy decided to properly look up what evolution is and what it means. I've taken a while, and looked up and researched a lot, not just from Creationist perspectives, but from a scientific perspective, also. It seems as though evolution has evidence that easily refutes everything I've ever heared from other creationists, of course, I still believe God gave us this wonderful universe, but from what I've learned, evolution is undeniable. It looks like evolution is just the mechanism by which our Lord created us, because the evidence for it is overwhelming, but if Genesis is to be taken litteraly then it would mean God lied to us. I no longer believe that Genesis was supposed to be taken litterally, but rather as a story, to set out the fact that God did all of this for us. We live in an incredibly complex and intricate universe, and even with all God's power and grace he would've had to create it all in such a way that we could come to understand the process by which he did.

So, to all you creationists: What is it that keeps you away from believing Evolution? What is it that means you so adamantly reject it? Because, talking from personal experience, once you've learned about it, it makes a lot more sense than our Father doing it instantaniously. He wants us to understand him, and trust him, and to be honest, I really do believe he would create us in such a way that we could come to understand how he did it as much as possible.

And to you other evolutionists: Do you have any more litterature or sites or anything I can read on the subject?

 

[Cabal]

Good on ya.

What sources have you already looked into?

 

[Assyrian]

Check out The BioLogos Forum
which was set up by Francis Collins head of the Human Genome Project when they sequenced the human genome

 

[Greg1234]

Ah the ol' reset button

Irrefutable evidence against Darwinism A

Irrefutable evidence against Darwinism B

Irrefutable evidence against Darwinism C

Irrefutable evidence against Darwinism D

Execute Reset: "but from what I've learned, evolution is undeniable."

Repeat process

Time bought- time buying

 

[Greg1234]

I was here before, and because of this place I actualy decided to properly look up what evolution is and what it means. I've taken a while, and looked up and researched a lot, not just from Creationist perspectives, but from a scientific perspective, also. It seems as though evolution has evidence that easily refutes everything I've ever heared from other creationists, of course, I still believe God gave us this wonderful universe, but from what I've learned, evolution is undeniable. It looks like evolution is just the mechanism by which our Lord created us, because the evidence for it is overwhelming, but if Genesis is to be taken litteraly then it would mean God lied to us. I no longer believe that Genesis was supposed to be taken litterally, but rather as a story, to set out the fact that God did all of this for us. We live in an incredibly complex and intricate universe, and even with all God's power and grace he would've had to create it all in such a way that we could come to understand the process by which he did.

So, to all you creationists: What is it that keeps you away from believing Evolution? What is it that means you so adamantly reject it? Because, talking from personal experience, once you've learned about it, it makes a lot more sense than our Father doing it instantaniously. He wants us to understand him, and trust him, and to be honest, I really do believe he would create us in such a way that we could come to understand how he did it as much as possible.

And to you other evolutionists: Do you have any more litterature or sites or anything I can read on the subject?

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you have no data but you're here to coax theists into accepting materialism's random formation of man.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Blah blah no evidence contrary to evolution is actually presented blah blah evolution is impotent blah blah conflate modern theory with 'Darwinism' blah blah blah.

 

[ByHisGraceForever]

You have got to be in the Guiness Book of World Records as having more sock puppets than some people have posts, eh?

I had an account, which 404'd whenever I logged into it, so I made a new one.

Why do you think this is a sock account? I'm openly admitting to my other account - ByHisGraceAdInfinitum. A sock is someone who makes multiple accounts that agree with them, pretending to be someone else. I'm not doing that.

What sources have you already looked into?

Honestly? I've been reading into the kitzmiller trial and the work of Kenneth Miller. I've learned a lot in how he reconciled his faith with solid, undeniable facts. .

...human genome...

I've looked into it a little bit, but from what I understand, there are things in our genome that can only make sense when explained by evolutionary processes, like human chromosome number 2. I'd love to read more on it, though. Suggestions welcome!

 

[Mr Dave]

I no longer believe that Genesis was supposed to be taken litterally, but rather as a story, to set out the fact that God did all of this for us. We live in an incredibly complex and intricate universe, and even with all God's power and grace he would've had to create it all in such a way that we could come to understand the process by which he did.

It's very warming to read this. As someone has said, reading the Bible only literally is a flawed view (a has been acknowledged for hundreds/thousands of years). The Bible points to things much greater than itself and is limited by human language. It points towards them so contains a great depth. Reading it only literally ignores where it is pointing to. If you're interested in London, you don't find the road sign that says 'London 64 miles', but follow where the sign is going as where you going is substantially more interesting and representative of what you want the the sign itself.

And to you other evolutionists: Do you have any more litterature or sites or anything I can read on the subject?

In addition to things already mentioned,

Karen Armstrong writes concisely on the subject - In the Beginning: Amazon.co.uk: Karen Armstrong: Books

This is also worth watching;

YouTube - ‪BBC Did Darwin Kill God? 2009‬‏

 

[Mr Dave]

It's very warming to read this. As someone has said, reading the Bible only literally is a flawed view (a has been acknowledged for hundreds/thousands of years). The Bible points to things much greater than itself and is limited by human language. It points towards them so contains a great depth. Reading it only literally ignores where it is pointing to. If you're interested in London, you don't find the road sign that says 'London 64 miles', but follow where the sign is going as where you going is substantially more interesting and representative of what you want the the sign itself.

In fact just looked in the book, and I believe I got something along those lines from the Karen Armstrong book;

We have to know how to read our scriptures. they demand an imaginative effort that can sometimes be perplexing and painful as Jacob's wrestling match. The true meaning of scripture can never be wholly comprised in a literal reading of the text, since that text points beyond itself to a reality which cannot be adequately be expressed in words and concepts.

 

[ByHisGraceForever]

In fact just looked in the book, and I believe I got something along those lines from the Karen Armstrong book;

God gave us imagination, I'd be surprised if he didn't expect us to use it occasionally. After all, He made us in His image, and it must've taken an amazing imagination to create this universe.

 

[sfs]

The BioLogos site will provide information on a lot of places and books to look tino further about reconciling evolution with Christian faith, with a slant toward American evangelical views. Two suggestions for books that might be useful: Perspectives on an Evolving Creation, edited by Keith Miller (addresses a lot of topics, including scientific evidence and theological implications), and Inspiration and Incarnation, by Peter Enns (not about evolution at all, but about how to treat the Old Testament).

 

[Cabal]

Honestly? I've been reading into the kitzmiller trial and the work of Kenneth Miller. I've learned a lot in how he reconciled his faith with solid, undeniable facts.

Good start indeed.

I've looked into it a little bit, but from what I understand, there are things in our genome that can only make sense when explained by evolutionary processes, like human chromosome number 2. I'd love to read more on it, though. Suggestions welcome!

If you don't mind a minute amount of antitheistic snark, Coyne and Dawkins both have good books talking about the evidence for evolution.

Generally though, you can't go wrong with Your Inner Fish by Neil Shubin.

 

[Split Rock]

I was here before, and because of this place I actualy decided to properly look up what evolution is and what it means. I've taken a while, and looked up and researched a lot, not just from Creationist perspectives, but from a scientific perspective, also. It seems as though evolution has evidence that easily refutes everything I've ever heared from other creationists, of course, I still believe God gave us this wonderful universe, but from what I've learned, evolution is undeniable. It looks like evolution is just the mechanism by which our Lord created us, because the evidence for it is overwhelming, but if Genesis is to be taken litteraly then it would mean God lied to us. I no longer believe that Genesis was supposed to be taken litterally, but rather as a story, to set out the fact that God did all of this for us. We live in an incredibly complex and intricate universe, and even with all God's power and grace he would've had to create it all in such a way that we could come to understand the process by which he did.

So, to all you creationists: What is it that keeps you away from believing Evolution? What is it that means you so adamantly reject it? Because, talking from personal experience, once you've learned about it, it makes a lot more sense than our Father doing it instantaniously. He wants us to understand him, and trust him, and to be honest, I really do believe he would create us in such a way that we could come to understand how he did it as much as possible.

And to you other evolutionists: Do you have any more litterature or sites or anything I can read on the subject?

Good for you on your journey into the Light! It gives many of us here some hope that we are not wasting our time.

I agree with Cabal on Your Inner Fish by Neil Shubin. A GREAT book and one written for laymen to understand. A website I always recommend is : Understanding Evolution

 

[AV1611VET]

And to you other evolutionists: Do you have any more litterature or sites or anything I can read on the subject?

If I might add my 2¢ here -- if you feel that way about this, may I suggest The Preservation of Favoured Races by Charles Darwin, which comes with the admiration of that man, whose grandson (A.H.) made a name for himself in history.

 

[Naraoia]

I was here before, and because of this place I actualy decided to properly look up what evolution is and what it means. I've taken a while, and looked up and researched a lot, not just from Creationist perspectives, but from a scientific perspective, also. It seems as though evolution has evidence that easily refutes everything I've ever heared from other creationists, of course, I still believe God gave us this wonderful universe, but from what I've learned, evolution is undeniable.

< staff edit > < staff edit >

And to you other evolutionists: Do you have any more litterature or sites or anything I can read on the subject?

*thinks* Well, I can definitely second the UC Berkeley site Split Rock recommended, and third the vote for Your Inner Fish.

Other stuff I've personally read:

Prothero's Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why it Matters is good enough for the most part, and there are some truly beautiful examples of transitional fossils in it. (IIRC, there's also a fair bit of venting against young earth creationism, in case such things offend you.) A warning: it's been a couple of years since I read it, so a lot of the details are lost, but I know I found the parts about evo-devo and about the origin of life a bit dodgy (IIRC, he doesn't even mention the RNA world hypothesis).

Andrew Knoll's Life on a Young Planet is plain beautiful. It's about the history of earth and its life forms from the origin of life to the Cambrian explosion. The book is cleverly structured, the prose is a delight to read, and Knoll goes to great pains to show you how we know what we know, with all the associated uncertainties.

The Ancestor's Tale by Dawkins takes you through a lot of important concepts in evolutionary theory, using some very interesting examples.

This may be a more difficult read, but Kirschner and Gerhart's The Plausibility of Life might tell you things about evolution you never even considered if you can get through it. Again, I read it years ago, but it did indeed make life sound more plausible.

If you are into textbookish stuff, From DNA to Diversity covers some of the basics of evo-devo.

The links all go to previews on Google Books, so you can sample each of these before committing.

(I'd say if you don't mind run-on sentences and flowery Victorian prose, it's worth eventually reading Darwin's Origin itself (freely available here). You may be surprised to find some creationist arguments still in use today already demolished there.)

Websites, Devonian Times hasn't been updated in a long while, but it's still a lovely resource about the fish-tetrapod transition.

And, of course, no list of recommendations could be complete without a link to TalkOrigins the Awesome. Their 29+ evidences for macroevolution FAQ is a treasure. It's quite a big one, but thankfully it's divided up into neat bite-sized sections.

My YouTube recommendation is cdk007. I've watched stuff from other YouTube educators like potholer54 and AronRa, but cdk has made by far the biggest impression on me. His stuff just looks exceptionally good on top of being solid on the science front. I think the video that sold me on him was the one called Evolution IS a blind watchmaker, but there are many good ones on evolution, abiogenesis and creationism/ID.

 

[hollyda]

I'm sure you'll sleep better tonight now, knowing that AV wasn't talking about you-know-who, won't you?

Voldemort?

 

[Lillen]

I said this in another thread... But evolution is a logical and irrational impossibility. Using evolution as tool we see that we all have a common ancestor. Looking at the family tree we see that population grows the longer past you come!

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I said this in another thread... But evolution is a logical and irrational impossibility.

Why? What makes you believe it is impossible?

 

[Hespera]

Why? What makes you believe it is impossible?

The version of evolution taht creationists make up is irrational and a logical impossibility. if they ever undert it.stood what it actually is about they'd find they had no arguments against.

 

[Naraoia]

Why? What makes you believe it is impossible?

Judging from the rest of his post, the reason seems to be the population growth argument that doesn't stand up to a single lesson in population ecology.