Evoluiton can't account for higher-level animal behaviour

[Shemjaza]

I don't know what kind of apes were that, but the difference between man and the smartest ape is abysmal even if those are not the 'ancestors'.

Modern apes are pretty smart animals, but I'll grant you we are a bunch smarter.

Interesting is that you can see a pretty clear progression from a more typical ape, Australopithecus, through the multiple extinct species of hominids towards modern humans.

But you also have to remember that our technology has accelerated in recorded history. There were many thousands of years where the bow, the necklace, the fish trap and the poncho were the pinnacle of human technology.

 

[NBB]

Modern apes are pretty smart animals, but I'll grant you we are a bunch smarter.

Interesting is that you can see a pretty clear progression from a more typical ape, Australopithecus, through the multiple extinct species of hominids towards modern humans.

But you also have to remember that our technology has accelerated in recorded history. There were many thousands of years where the bow, the necklace, the fish trap and the poncho were the pinnacle of human technology.

Yes because apes, can even draw something useful, calculate 1 + 1 while being conscious of what they are doing, create music, or even appreciate beauty, .... and they can't talk, or know why they wake in the morning contemplating their life, is really abysmal please don't compare apes to humans in intelligence.

 

[VirOptimus]

Yes because apes, can even draw something useful, calculate 1 + 1 while being conscious of what they are doing, create music, or even appreciate beauty, .... and they can't talk, or know why they wake in the morning contemplating their life, is really abysmal please don't compare apes to humans in intelligence.

Again, humans are apes. So yes, apes can do all of the above.

 

[NBB]

Again, humans are apes. So yes, apes can do all of the above.

We were talking about the other apes, the dumb ones, far away from us in intelelct.

 

[Speedwell]

We were talking about the other apes, the dumb ones, far away from us in intelelct.

How are you going to quantify that?

 

[durangodawood]

Man, you guys with the patience to argue for evolution against people who hold a pre-existing theological commitment that its wrong....

Youre saints!

 

[VirOptimus]

We were talking about the other apes, the dumb ones, far away from us in intelelct.

Then write that.

Its not I who write posts in error.

 

[NBB]

Then write that.

Its not I who write posts in error.

If you followed the conversation it should have been easy to assume..
Also i don't like to see humans as apes, since we have nothing in common with them, at least the ones on earth.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

If you followed the conversation it should have been easy to assume..
Also i don't like to see humans as apes, since we have nothing in common with them, at least the ones on earth.

Biologically we have way more commonalities than differences. We've more in common with chimps than chimps have with gorillas.

 

[NBB]

Man, you guys with the patience to argue for evolution against people who hold a pre-existing theological commitment that its wrong....

Youre saints!

Yes i have a God that would like to say some things about evolution too, like how people on earth is thinking they were created by it while not giving credit to the real creator, you assume i have a belief and nothing else, no its not just that, God can manifest to us. And everyone should start seeking him fast.

 

[NBB]

Biologically we have way more commonalities than differences. We've more in common with chimps than chimps have with gorillas.

And spiritually? i mean intellectually?. Evolutionists have the impossible task to figure how our intellect was made.

 

[Speedwell]

And spiritually? i mean intellectually?. Evolutionists have the impossible task to figure how our intellect was made.

Why? It is not even known that it is entirely the result of evolutionary processes.

 

[NBB]

Why? It is not even known that it is entirely the result of evolutionary processes.

Because if i'm aware scientists don't have any other 'science' to explain it?

 

[Speedwell]

Because if i'm aware scientists don't have any other 'science' to explain it?

You were speaking particularly of biological evolution, but the full explanation might lie elsewhere. After the complexity of the brain reaches a certain point, the development of intellect may become a sociological phenomenon.

 

[NBB]

You were speaking particularly of biological evolution, but the full explanation might lie elsewhere. After the complexity of the brain reaches a certain point, the development of intellect may become a sociological phenomenon.

That a person can learn etc fine, and with more years we know more about lots of stuff, but the brain would need parts to make it function, so each one of people abilities, intelligence perception, feelings, had to have 'functions' in the brain that enables them, and so if the hardware does not allow it, it will not be possible to increase the intellect. Like in computer better hardware requires a better design, that just my opinion though and actually i don't believe the brain does all that, because i believe in spiritual soul mind spriit.

 

[Speedwell]

That a person can learn etc fine, and with more years we know more about lots of stuff, but the brain would need parts to make it function, so each one of people abilities, intelligence perception, feelings, had to have 'functions' in the brain that enables them, and so if the hardware does not allow it, it will not be possible to increase the intellect. Like in computer better hardware requires a better design, that just my opinion though and actually i don't believe the brain does all that, because i believe in spiritual soul mind spriit.

So how much better does our "hardware" have to be than that of another ape's to support our "software?" It may not have to be all that much better. But if you are a substance dualist for religious reasons I suspect you don't much care, you just want to rag on "atheists" who aren't.

 

[NBB]

So how much better does our "hardware" have to be than that of another ape's to support our "software?" It may not have to be all that much better. But if you are a substance dualist for religious reasons I suspect you don't much care, you just want to rag on "atheists" who aren't.

I just try to put myself with the other point of view, and try to understand it but everyone has their convictions. You could say atheist have their reasons too.

 

[loveofourlord]

Man, you guys with the patience to argue for evolution against people who hold a pre-existing theological commitment that its wrong....

Youre saints!

hehe I will admit that part of it must be a sado masochistic side to willingly bash my head against a wall alot :> though I'm sure I would get a more interesting conversation with one.

 

[loveofourlord]

Actually one possible explanation is that we are imature apes, and due to that we maintain our ability to learn and grow mentally longer then most other animals and apes, also humans give birth earlier then most animals possibly allowing for more growth, two thigns that have less to do with the brain but our capacity to learn. Nothing is unique about our brains or what we do for as biological creatures, just the capacity for it. People speak of language, well most animals can't actually speak the same way we can, but some animals like ravens have dozens to hundred of words they use, meerkats have different words for different types of predators and so on. it's really the quanity not the quality.

 

[Speedwell]

I just try to put myself with the other point of view, and try to understand it but everyone has their convictions. You could say atheist have their reasons too.

Atheists are entitled to their own reasons, whatever they may be, but that is not the point of the discussion. Epiphenomenalism is not intrinsically atheistic.