• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Evilution VS Evolution

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
No, that isn't correct. Any serious biblical scholar will tell you that the OT did in fact sanctify slavery. Read Exod. 21. In the NT, read Paul.
Is that the No True Scottsman Fallacy I see? How serious a person is about their studies may have a strong correlation with the quality of their work, but it in no way determines that their work will be good, or match yours.
 
Upvote 0

Hoghead1

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2015
4,911
741
78
✟8,968.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
... can take a hike.

If they can't talk without having to pluto terms in the Bible, they can take their garbage elsewhere.
Typical response of those who don't carefully read Scripture. Exod. 21:20 states,"When a man strikes his slave or his salve-girl with a stick and the slave dies on the spot, he must be punished. But he is not to be punished if the slave survives for one day or two, because the slave is his property. "
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,349
52,697
Guam
✟5,172,856.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I guess you mean the planet, but it is more humorous to imagine you mean the Romanized version of the Greek god Hades. You probably think that if us atheists don't know more about that now, we will soon enough ;) and the dark humor of that and wordplay that are at my expense don't humor me any less for it.
You're justifying changing "servant" to "slave," and then then telling me about "wordplay"?

Alrighty, then.

I'll be you think God's miracles were God's magic, don't you?

(In the Old Testament, that is. We need to stipulate that, don't we? Wez smart cookies. :))
 
Upvote 0

Hoghead1

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2015
4,911
741
78
✟8,968.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
You're justifying changing "servant" to "slave," and then then telling me about "wordplay"?

Alrighty, then.

I'll be you think God's miracles were God's magic, don't you?

(In the Old Testament, that is. We need to stipulate that, don't we? Wez smart cookies. :))
I already cited you direct OT quotes that debunk you here. Did you pay any attention to them? Also, historically, there was often no real difference between being a servant and a slave.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,349
52,697
Guam
✟5,172,856.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Two can play this game.

Okay ... you wanna dance?

Let's dance.
Exod. 21:20 states,"When a man strikes his slave or his salve-girl with a stick ...
No, it doesn't.

It says "dart" (shebet).
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,349
52,697
Guam
✟5,172,856.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Also, historically, there was often no real difference between being a servant and a slave.
Right.

And what was the Civil War fought over then?

Cotton?
 
Upvote 0

Hoghead1

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2015
4,911
741
78
✟8,968.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Let's not end up worshiping democracy (or even Democracy). It has its own flaws and weaknesses, even if not so dire ones as other forms of governing that have been tried.
The most effective form of government is almost certainly that of an enlightened benevolent dictator.
The problem comes with ensuring your dictator is and remains that way, and how to change the ruler if they are not.

Cue:
"King, are you? Well I didn't vote for you."
Democracy is about the worst form of government, except when you consider the alternatives. Also, it takes far more talent and skill to govern over a democracy than to govern as a tyrant, enlightened or otherwise. Remember, an enlightened tyrant is still a tyrant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris B
Upvote 0

Hoghead1

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2015
4,911
741
78
✟8,968.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
He's a smart cookie, ain't he? ;)

I'll bet he knows more about Pluto than I, too.
Yep, I'm one smart cookie. Therefore, I know exactly what to do. Go and read the Bible. Apparently reading Scripture is not among the skills in your response repertoire. I just posted some direct quotes from Exod. Too bad you haven't paid any attention to them.
 
Upvote 0

Hoghead1

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2015
4,911
741
78
✟8,968.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Is that the No True Scottsman Fallacy I see? How serious a person is about their studies may have a strong correlation with the quality of their work, but it in no way determines that their work will be good, or match yours.
It does here, however. The reason I say that is because the academic world of modern biblical scholarship has research tools, education, and linguistic skills in place way beyond what the laity have. Hence, the conclusions scholarship presents are based on a far more objective and extensive study of the Bible.
 
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
You're justifying changing "servant" to "slave," and then then telling me about "wordplay"?

Alrighty, then.

I'll be you think God's miracles were God's magic, don't you?

(In the Old Testament, that is. We need to stipulate that, don't we? Wez smart cookies. :))
No... I was making a dark joke. Because thinking we know more about Pluto than you (Pluto is the Romanized version of Hades, the Greek god of the underworld and also another term for Hell). And I said if we don't now, we will later (as per your belief system, atheists go to hell). That's how it's a play on words, because knowing you, you meant the planet.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,349
52,697
Guam
✟5,172,856.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Oh, c'mon. That makes absolutely no sense and you know it.
Really?

Hebrews 12:20 For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

If they can thrust an animal through with a dart, they certainly can thrust a slave through with one.

(See how fun this is?)
 
Upvote 0

Hoghead1

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2015
4,911
741
78
✟8,968.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Really?

Hebrews 12:20 For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

If they can thrust an animal through with a dart, they certainly can thrust a slave through with one.

(See how fun this is?)
Shebet, which you brought up, means to be hit with a rod. What on earth does Hebrews have to do with this?
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,349
52,697
Guam
✟5,172,856.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Shebet, which you brought up, means to be hit with a rod. What on earth does Hebrews have to do with this?
No, it doesn't.

Shebet is a noun.

The verb in Exodus 21:20 is nakah.

From my interlinear software:

Ex 21:20 And if a man <'iysh> smite <nakah> his servant, <`ebed> or his maid, <'amah> with a rod, <shebet> and he die <muwth> under his hand; <yad> he shall be surely <naqam> punished. <naqam> {punished: Heb. avenged}
 
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
No, it doesn't.

Shebet is a noun.

The verb in Exodus 21:20 is nakah.

From my interlinear software:

Ex 21:20 And if a man <'iysh> smite <nakah> his servant, <`ebed> or his maid, <'amah> with a rod, <shebet> and he die <muwth> under his hand; <yad> he shall be surely <naqam> punished. <naqam> {punished: Heb. avenged}
I am actually a bit shocked you'd bother with the Hebrew, given that you personally consider the English King James Bible to be the most accurate.
 
Upvote 0

Hoghead1

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2015
4,911
741
78
✟8,968.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
No, it doesn't.

Shebet is a noun.

The verb in Exodus 21:20 is nakah.

From my interlinear software:

Ex 21:20 And if a man <'iysh> smite <nakah> his servant, <`ebed> or his maid, <'amah> with a rod, <shebet> and he die <muwth> under his hand; <yad> he shall be surely <naqam> punished. <naqam> {punished: Heb. avenged}


Yes, I understand that. What I was trying to say is that as used in Exod. , it is in the context of being hit with a rod, just as you mentioned above. So I don't see what point you were trying to make in bringing it up in the first place.
 
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Yes, I understand that. What I was trying to say is that as used in Exod. , it is in the context of being hit with a rod, just as you mentioned above. So I don't see what point you were trying to make in bringing it up in the first place.
In case you didn't notice, the word was servant/maid, not slave, in his post.
 
Upvote 0

Hoghead1

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2015
4,911
741
78
✟8,968.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
In case you didn't notice, the word was servant/maid, not slave, in his post.
It makes no difference. Saying we should use "servant" rather than "slave" is simply putting lipstick on a pig, and you know it and he does, too.
 
Upvote 0