Evil

[trekkie1701c]

I'm curious as to how you all will respond to this:

How can God exist with evil in the world? Or rather, how can a benevolent, all-powerful, all-knowing god exist with evil in the world?

We know evil exists.

So either God doesn't care (therefore is not benevolent)
or God Doesn't know evil exists (therefore is not all-knowing)
or God Doesn't have the power to get rid of evil (therefore is not all-powerful).

I realize, yes, this is a Christian forum, but it is very difficult to see Christian arguments on Atheist forums.

 

[HypnoToad]

I think we need a sticky post about the "problem of evil" so that we don't have to answer it every five minutes.

The question is logically flawed. For one, it assumes evil has no other purpose but to cause suffering. Second, just because God hasn't ended evil YET, it does not follow that it's because He can't or that He never will.

 

[bennyk]

God gave us free will. Because of this free will we can choose to do "good" or choose to do "evil". The fall of lucifer/birth of darkness/satan doesn't exactly help the situation either.

or God Doesn't have the power to get rid of evil (therefore is not all-powerful)

He does, and scripture says he will. Eventually sin, death, and Satan will be cast into the fire. (Revelation 20: whole chapter)

 

[talitha]

How can God exist with evil in the world?

One question that baffles me is this - how can evil exist in a universe with God? It's like darkness existing in a room with light..... Light abolishes darkness. Darkness must be contained somehow in order to remain.... many people are all-too-eager to contain bits of darkness within rooms in their hearts and lives, closing the door and refusing to allow the Sun to shine there.

Hmmm......

blessings
tal

 

[trekkie1701c]

God gave us free will. Because of this free will we can choose to do "good" or choose to do "evil". The fall of lucifer/birth of darkness/satan doesn't exactly help the situation either.


He does, and scripture says he will. Eventually sin, death, and Satan will be cast into the fire. (Revelation 20: whole chapter)

God could simply not have created evil.

I think we need a sticky post about the "problem of evil" so that we don't have to answer it every five minutes.

The question is logically flawed. For one, it assumes evil has no other purpose but to cause suffering. Second, just because God hasn't ended evil YET, it does not follow that it's because He can't or that He never will.

Why not end it now? Or never have had it to start with? It seems like when he created us he could have completely removed the idea of evil from our minds, or never added it. It seems very inefficient.

Also, why would a benevolent God want any of us to suffer?

One question that baffles me is this - how can evil exist in a universe with God? It's like darkness existing in a room with light..... Light abolishes darkness. Darkness must be contained somehow in order to remain.... many people are all-too-eager to contain bits of darkness within rooms in their hearts and lives, closing the door and refusing to allow the Sun to shine there.

I agree. I'm not entirely sure why God would create evil. And I do know many people who do try to keep hold of their "darkness", despite whatever kindness that is shown to them.

 

[WarEagle]

I'm curious as to how you all will respond to this:

How can God exist with evil in the world? Or rather, how can a benevolent, all-powerful, all-knowing god exist with evil in the world?

We know evil exists.

So either God doesn't care (therefore is not benevolent)
or God Doesn't know evil exists (therefore is not all-knowing)
or God Doesn't have the power to get rid of evil (therefore is not all-powerful).

I realize, yes, this is a Christian forum, but it is very difficult to see Christian arguments on Atheist forums.

When you say "evil", what do you mean? Do you mean sin?

 

[trekkie1701c]

I say what I mean.

"Sin" is a law that is based on old, and possibly outdated, moral codes.

"Evil" is an action meant to be harmful; unjust.

 

[WarEagle]

I say what I mean.

You may say what you mean, but what you mean isn't always clear. You need to take into consideration that just because something is clear to you, that doesn't mean it's clear to your audience.

You should also keep in mind that when you come to a Christian message board to ask questions of Christians, that it is assumed that we will answer based on Christian theology.

"Sin" is a law that is based on old, and possibly outdated, moral codes.

Do you really believe that stealing, lying, adultery, murder, etc are outdated?

"Evil" is an action meant to be harmful; unjust.

Evil is the result of man's sinful nature so when you're talking about "evil", the root of it is still sin.

 

[tapero]

God could simply not have created evil.

Hi, God did not create evil in any way shape or form.

Why not end it now? Or never have had it to start with? It seems like when he created us he could have completely removed the idea of evil from our minds, or never added it. It seems very inefficient.

God would have to wipe out the whole human race, as He does not go against free will. All are sinners. He never added evil in the mind. Evil is wrongdoing, not doing as God commands. All sin is evil.

Also, why would a benevolent God want any of us to suffer?

God never intended us to suffer in any way.

I agree. I'm not entirely sure why God would create evil. And I do know many people who do try to keep hold of their "darkness", despite whatever kindness that is shown to them.

God did not create evil, i repeat again.

God does have plan to the end of evil. This will take place after end time events. For those in heaven, there will be no more tears. There will be no more sin.

 

[izarya]

What we call good and evil are both objective states at the extreme-most opposite ends of the same scale. I believe that there is no inherent good or evil. Just distortion caused by human perception.

The Jewish Mystics said that to the rectified mind which has transcended the dualities of perception, all phenomena are completely good (as is God).
To the unrectified mind, the challenge is to find the good; once found, seeming evil turns out to be apparent good.

 

[talitha]

just so you guys know, the opinions expressed in the above post do not express doctrines typical of Christianity. I for one cannot agree with them.

blessings in Jesus
tal

 

[izarya]

just so you guys know, the opinions expressed in the above post do not express doctrines typical of Christianity. I for one cannot agree with them.

blessings in Jesus
tal

Yes, absolutely! Typically, modern Christianity is quite remedial in nature. It keeps things simple for it's adherents for fear that they will err in the face of too much information and individual thought is generally not encouraged.

My opinion, that is.

 

[Shubunkin]

You speak of evil as if it is a substance floating around. It is a spiritual condition, and God is omnipresent, yes. God also allows it to happen because without sin being manifest we could not see it.

He allows us to see it, and good, and choose.

 

[tapero]

evil is result of sin.

satan did evil against God
adam and eve did sin/evil against God

God does not need evil in this world in any way shape or form

however it is in the world, due to sin.

 

[brothersean]

I'm curious as to how you all will respond to this:

How can God exist with evil in the world? Or rather, how can a benevolent, all-powerful, all-knowing god exist with evil in the world?

We know evil exists.

So either God doesn't care (therefore is not benevolent)
or God Doesn't know evil exists (therefore is not all-knowing)
or God Doesn't have the power to get rid of evil (therefore is not all-powerful).

I realize, yes, this is a Christian forum, but it is very difficult to see Christian arguments on Atheist forums.

My theory, is that evil exists due to humans causing it to exist. God allows evil to exist, because He, in His mercy, is giving us as much time as possible so He can draw as many of His children back to Him as possible, but while the ones who are serving the devil instead of God are out there doing their satan's will, evil continuously is produced by their actions.

Sometimes God does allow evil to occur, but only because it serves His purposes, and actually, they are to our benefit. It draws people close to Him in adversity, it makes people conscience of their sins and turn to repentance. When He removes the adversities from one's life, they are renewed in faith and thus have a stronger relationship with him.

God's ways are not our ways. I understand that sometimes people expect Him to conform to our image, however, the creation cannot question the creator, like the clay cannot question the artist.

God bless! Peace, and Christian Love
Brother Sean

 

[trekkie1701c]

You may say what you mean, but what you mean isn't always clear. You need to take into consideration that just because something is clear to you, that doesn't mean it's clear to your audience.

You should also keep in mind that when you come to a Christian message board to ask questions of Christians, that it is assumed that we will answer based on Christian theology.

Do you really believe that stealing, lying, adultery, murder, etc are outdated?

Evil is the result of man's sinful nature so when you're talking about "evil", the root of it is still sin.

Apologies; my mind doesn't go to theological ideas on as many things as Christians do.

And I said possibly outdated moral codes. My example would be the sin of women working - I'd think that's a bit oudated.

God did not create evil, i repeat again.

God does have plan to the end of evil. This will take place after end time events. For those in heaven, there will be no more tears. There will be no more sin.

You said God would need to destroy Humanity to get rid of evil. Why is that? I thought God was all-powerful.

 

[talitha]

And I said possibly outdated moral codes. My example would be the sin of women working - I'd think that's a bit oudated.

lol, women working has never been a sin.

 

[swill8295]

I'm curious as to how you all will respond to this:

How can God exist with evil in the world? Or rather, how can a benevolent, all-powerful, all-knowing god exist with evil in the world?

We know evil exists.

So either God doesn't care (therefore is not benevolent)
or God Doesn't know evil exists (therefore is not all-knowing)
or God Doesn't have the power to get rid of evil (therefore is not all-powerful).

I realize, yes, this is a Christian forum, but it is very difficult to see Christian arguments on Atheist forums.

God is all knowing, all powerful, and all loving. However, he loves his people so much that he has given them a choice to love him. If they had not been given a chance to love God, love wouldn't be love. So in order to believe that God is not benevolent, one has to change the original meaning of benevolent, or intention, as set by God before the world began. Lets put it this way, God knows evil exists, but evil doesn't know God exists. God does infact have the power to stop evil, but he allows evil to be on this earth at this time to be used as a cleansing fire to those who work for good. God doesn't cause the evil, but he doesn't stop it if it serves a loving purpose in the big picture.

 

[trekkie1701c]

lol, women working has never been a sin.

I'll have to look up my source again, but I'm sure I read it somewhere. Irregardless, women still have several things they are punished for unfairly. I believe Leviticus 19:20 is interesting in that respect: "And whoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to her husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given to her, she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free." Pretty much what it says is that if a woman is a servant/slave, and she gets raped, SHE gets punished, and the man gets away free.

God is all knowing, all powerful, and all loving. However, he loves his people so much that he has given them a choice to love him. If they had not been given a chance to love God, love wouldn't be love. So in order to believe that God is not benevolent, one has to change the original meaning of benevolent, or intention, as set by God before the world began. Lets put it this way, God knows evil exists, but evil doesn't know God exists. God does infact have the power to stop evil, but he allows evil to be on this earth at this time to be used as a cleansing fire to those who work for good. God doesn't cause the evil, but he doesn't stop it if it serves a loving purpose in the big picture.

But lack of love does not necessarily mean that you have to do harmful things... there are many I do not love, and there are many I downright hate. But I'm not going to say, fly hijacked airliners into buildings because I don't like people. Really, the worse I see as reasonable if you don't like someone is to limit contact with them. So again - why does God allow evil to happen?

 

[tapero]

Apologies; my mind doesn't go to theological ideas on as many things as Christians do.

And I said possibly outdated moral codes. My example would be the sin of women working - I'd think that's a bit oudated.



You said God would need to destroy Humanity to get rid of evil. Why is that? I thought God was all-powerful.

All sin is evil. All wrongdoing is sin. So, if God were to remove all evil, he would need remove all of us.

He will do so in the future; put an end to sin that is; however for now, we are under His grace and He is permitting the world to continue until the end times starts; which is the beginning of the end.

So, I take it God doesn't wish to remove all evil from the earth at this time, or like I said, all would be gone.

Anyway, that's my thinking.

thanks,
tapero