Evil Atheist

[b&wpac4]

Yes, and I ASSUME it's because no-one can really recognise who Jesus is unless the Father through the Holy Spirit reveals Him to us.
Therefore, one can be forgiven for saying things against Jesus, in ignorance...but if the Holy Spirit is revealing things to you, and you gainsay that, then you are not in a position to receive forgiveness, as you are rejecting the revelation.
Sorry, probably have not put that very well...not good at explaining things.

I used to be a Christian that determined through research I didn't believe Jesus was who he claimed to be. I suppose, to you, I have committed that unforgivable sin, right?

 

[tansy]

No, that actually makes sense. But ... wouldn't that basically be a sin that virtually no one actually commits? I mean... what person in his right mind would do anything like that?

Yes, you do have a point...I sometimes wonder that myself, but am afraid I'm not well enough up on things to give you an answer - there's often more to things than meet the eye. And I'm afraid I'm not a theologian.

I've got to get off the computer now, cos my son wants to use it, otherwise I would look up the passage on the web, and see if there is a commentasry on it.
But maybe, in the meantime, someone else will be able to shed more light on it.

 

[HighwayMan]

Who are you addressing?

the OP

 

[PreachersWife2004]

the OP

okay, thanks. Just got a little confused there!

 

[tansy]

I used to be a Christian that determined through research I didn't believe Jesus was who he claimed to be. I suppose, to you, I have committed that unforgivable sin, right?

No, I don't believe that you have....I think that for whatever reason (don't ask me why God doesn't reveal Himself to everyone from ayoung age...only wish He did), He has not revealed Himself to you yet in a way that you can acknowledge Him. There may be many reasons for that, but as I say, I wouldn't like to hazard a guess, and that would make a whole new thread in itself.

 

[tansy]

Here is one take on it in thecontext of the actual scripture http://www.hornes.org/theologia/mark-horne/blasphemy-against-the-holy-spirit

 

[Polycarp_fan]

I keep reading from Christians about atheists, and how I don't believe in God so that they might continue their sinful lifestyles, but I feel a little perplexed as to what that means.

For example, myself. I have never murdered anyone. I have never intentionally stolen from anyone. I don't really lie, and I would say that I'm remarkably honest. I have never in my life had sex outside of wedlock. I'm not gay. I don't generally drink alcohol, and when I do it is not to excess. I have never done drugs outside of prescribed medication, and even then only at the insistence of a doctor. I don't smoke. I don't use the Lord's name in vein. I have no tattoos, or piercings. I have never physically assaulted another person. I'm even kosher!

Now, as I said, Christians like to tell me that I deny God so that I might continue my sinful lifestyle. What sinful lifestyle would that be?

At least you know what a lot of the sins are. Good job staying away from them. Knowing reality is always a good thing.

 

[JGG]

yeah, but you make it sound as if the majority of Christians are telling you this.

That's sort of irrelevant to the question.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

I used to be a Christian that determined through research I didn't believe Jesus was who he claimed to be. I suppose, to you, I have committed that unforgivable sin, right?

Many people have taken the road your on. Many have taken the road to believe that Jesus is Messiah. I'm one of the latter.

Your life is either between you and Jesus, or you and the King of the Universe.

Same Person in my opinion.

Just vote for the conservative in elections for now.

 

[JGG]

At least you know what a lot of the sins are. Good job staying away from them. Knowing reality is always a good thing.

I really don't want your approval, thanks. I'm asking a question.

 

[chingchang]

I keep reading from Christians about atheists, and how they don't believe in God so that they might continue their sinful lifestyles, but I feel a little perplexed as to what that means.

For example, myself. I have never murdered anyone. I have never intentionally stolen from anyone. I don't really lie, and I would say that I'm remarkably honest. I have never in my life had sex outside of wedlock. I'm not gay. I don't generally drink alcohol, and when I do it is not to excess. I have never done drugs outside of prescribed medication, and even then only at the insistence of a doctor. I don't smoke. I don't use the Lord's name in vein. I have no tattoos, or piercings. I have never physically assaulted another person. I'm even kosher!

Now, as I said, Christians like to tell me that I deny God so that I might continue my sinful lifestyle. What sinful lifestyle would that be?

Dude...you're way better than me...and I'm the Christian! I've lied...had lots of sex outside of wedlock...done illegal drugs...smoked...etc. I think people deny God for various reasons. I know because I was once an atheist...but being an atheist does not equal "sinful lifestyle"...and you are proof of that. What is sad is that the same Christians that accuse you of denying God so you can continue your "sinful" lifestyle would say something totally different to a Buddist Master...but it would amount to "denying God" because of their disagreement over who Jesus actually was/is. Whatever. I won't tell you why you're denying God...because I simply don't know for sure...but I'll guess it has to do with a lack of hard evidence. Atheists are thinkers and they need physical proof that they can touch...see and smell. I understand that. I just want you to know that there are Christians out here that can relate to you and that love you and can befriend you and won't judge you. I believe that it was God that put your morality in you and gave you that spark...but that is my belief and I respect your right to yours.

Hugs!
CC

 

[CauseAndEffect]

PreachersWife and chingchang thoroughly impress me. These are probably some of the most rational posts I have had the pleasure of reading from believers. Chingchang, you say you used to be an atheist? Can you elaborate more on that? Were you an explicit atheist or one that was just kinda like non-theistic , didn't really care about God or religion? What made you change your mind?

 

[chingchang]

PreachersWife and chingchang thoroughly impress me. These are probably some of the most rational posts I have had the pleasure of reading from believers. Chingchang, you say you used to be an atheist? Can you elaborate more on that? Were you an explicit atheist or one that was just kinda like non-theistic , didn't really care about God or religion? What made you change your mind?

Sure. I was an explicit atheist...meaning I didn't believe in a creator and thought when we died it was just "lights-out"...done-dealio. I had a friend who was more agnostic and he became a "born-again" Christian. Serious changes took place in his life...specifically with his lifestyle and behavior. He was still my friend and cared for me deeply. He was open to discussion and...knowing I was an atheist...really wanted to make the case for God to me. Well...one thing led to another and he talked me into (I was willing to give it a shot) taking the first step by saying what Christians call the "sinners-prayer"...which can't be found in the book (Bible) but is based on Biblical principals. Three nights later while sleeping God gave me a vision. Now...let me state that this is hard for most to relate to because people automatically compare this to very vivid dreams they've had. Well...it wasn't a dream. It wasn't even a "very vivid" dream. I was actually taken to another place which I can only describe as the "heavens". There were other people there and we were all standing in an auditorium-type structure. I saw lights...brilliant and hard-to-describe lights descend in front of me at some unknown distance. It was really incredible and very hard to describe in a way that would help people to relate. After the lights...a man was walking down the stairs of the auditorium and reaching out and touching people. I was afraid when he walked closer to me...but I recognized him as what we might think Jesus looks like. Of course we don't know what he looked like and I'm sure he looked different than what most of us think...but the flesh is just a shell. Anywho...he reached over and touched me as he walked by and in that very moment I was forever changed. The feeling that overtook me was one I can only describe as total peace. All anxieties...shame and fear were gone and replaced with the knowlege of something greater that is enstore for us. There was more to this vision...but that was the short-version. The incredible part about this experience is that it was exactly what I needed in order to believe. I was an atheist that needed proof...and he gave it to me. I believe that God wants me to share this with others so that they will know...but you can't see what I saw...so you'd still have to exercise faith to believe it. This reminds me of the movie Contact...where at the end Jody Foster had this alien contact experience...but she came back with no proof and in court they are trying to get her to admit that it never happened...but she cant'...it was real to her...but nobody believes her.

Anywho...I don't claim to know everything about God...but I have studied and read the Bible..ad naseum with some topics. I understand the Bible for what it is...and I think I understand the message and purpose of it. Love. Just like the Beetle's song..."All you need is love...". Unfortunately...I think religion has polluted the message and added to the spiritual teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. I think we Christians have a lot of it totally wrong...just like the Jews did when Jesus arrived on the scene. I'm still searching for truth and finding more of it each day.

Hugs,
CC

 

[CauseAndEffect]

Sure. I was an explicit atheist...meaning I didn't believe in a creator and thought when we died it was just "lights-out"...done-dealio.

What I meant by explicit atheist was more like did you actually call yourself an atheist? Not only that , did you rationalize ( presumably through reason) why you didn't prefer faith as a method for determining truth from falsehood?

I as an atheist do not say with 100% certainty that the universe was not 'created' nor that a 'Creator-god' doesn't exist. Truth is we really don't know yet. If considering god in the abstract, there is a possibility there is a god but that god cannot really even be defined because he is still in the realm of the unknown. But possibility isn't the same as probability and that is something the scientific method addresses. Its improbable that any god exists, particularly the christian god with defined characteristics and claims about him which have effected testable material reality.

I had a friend who was more agnostic and he became a "born-again" Christian. Serious changes took place in his life...specifically with his lifestyle and behavior. He was still my friend and cared for me deeply. He was open to discussion and...knowing I was an atheist...really wanted to make the case for God to me. Well...one thing led to another and he talked me into (I was willing to give it a shot) taking the first step by saying what Christians call the "sinners-prayer"...which can't be found in the book (Bible) but is based on Biblical principals.

Did you ask him any critical questions about his faith beforehand? Was he open to criticism? It sounds like someone talked you into an alternative. Which is fine but I am interested in knowing your level of skepticism regarding this event in your life.

Three nights later while sleeping God gave me a vision.

You know I'm going to ask it but is there anyway you can objectively prove this? If not, then its non-falsifiable and rests in the realm of your subjectivity. Another non-falsifiable claim would be ' I had a dream/vision/revelation of a talking purple elephant and I felt really good about it. You can't prove this wrong because there is nothing to objectively test but it doesn't make it right.

By the way, did you notice something very key here. Somehow, you recieve the vision 'while sleeping.' It is also coincidental that we tend to dream and our dreams are not subject to the constraints of material reality. In a dream there is no consistency in the 'external' world from our perspective. Quite the case, anything is possible.
It is strange that you did not recieve this from God outside of your sleep which might make a more interesting case.

Now...let me state that this is hard for most to relate to because people automatically compare this to very vivid dreams they've had. Well...it wasn't a dream. It wasn't even a "very vivid" dream.

So you felt it was unnecessary to be skeptical of your dream? Especially when it compels you to make an objective claim about reality?

I was actually taken to another place which I can only describe as the "heavens". There were other people there and we were all standing in an auditorium-type structure. I saw lights...brilliant and hard-to-describe lights descend in front of me at some unknown distance. It was really incredible and very hard to describe in a way that would help people to relate.

This is the problem. Nobody can really relate. You cannot reproduce the event because it is not testable in reality.

The incredible part about this experience is that it was exactly what I needed in order to believe. I was an atheist that needed proof...and he gave it to me.

If you were an atheist that was familiar with what would constitute actual proof you wouldn't have taken a personal subjective dream as valid evidence. Personally, I would have been skeptical of such a powerful dream. Again, if I maybe thought it *might* be from God, then I wouldn't be afraid to be skeptical of it because if is true, it could stand to scrutiny. If I felt this dream would have such a profound effect on my life I would've sought a professional psychologist to help me, perhaps, revisit this dream , and try to interpret its meaning. I, for one , strongly believe dreams are not just random neural firings in our brains but rather representative of a particular condition in our subconscious.

I believe that God wants me to share this with others so that they will know...but you can't see what I saw...so you'd still have to exercise faith to believe it.

If this were the case it wouldn't be sensible that god would chose you as a messenger to others. Why? Because people with critical thought would question the validity of a dream that's impossible for you to prove or present empirical evidence for. God can just as easily give me , the skeptics on this forum, and indeed, the entire human race the same dream so all can come to the realization that you have.

But you are correct, to believe this dream is reality, it does require a leap of faith. Reason, logic, and evidence ( lack of) seriously throw its empirical value into doubt. Faith is the belief or acceptance of something without the requirement of reason, logic , or evidence.

This reminds me of the movie Contact...where at the end Jody Foster had this alien contact experience...but she came back with no proof and in court they are trying to get her to admit that it never happened...but she cant'...it was real to her...but nobody believes her.

Naturally. Real to her doesn't mean objectively real or true.

Anywho...I don't claim to know everything about God...but I have studied and read the Bible..ad naseum with some topics. I understand the Bible for what it is...and I think I understand the message and purpose of it. Love.

But you claim god exists with a strong degree of certainty. That is a positive claim and the burden of proof shifts to you. As a former atheist ( and I assume rationalist) I'm sure you understand this.
I have read the Bible twice. Two versions: KJ and a new Catholic version. What I get from it is very different than you. The book is accurate insofar as correctly describing the level of knowledge and prejudice of the mystics that wrote the various books in the Bible. It is fitting for their era.
The events I decipher from the Bible are very far from love indeed. There is rape, murder, sexism , war, bullying, infanticide, genocide, racism, homophobia, plundering , sociopath-like tendencies, masochism, arson, animal abuse, theft, pedophilia, and other morally questionable events that are all sanctioned by the same god we are claiming as a loving god. I can also quote verses in the Bible where god sanctions all the aforementioned but for the sake of brevity I won't unless you really want me to.

Just like the Beetle's song..."All you need is love...". Unfortunately...I think religion has polluted the message and added to the spiritual teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. I think we Christians have a lot of it totally wrong...just like the Jews did when Jesus arrived on the scene. I'm still searching for truth and finding more of it each day.

The bible you derive your morality and truth from was the same bible sanctioned by a host of bishops when Rome declared its first state-based monotheistic religion. As much as you like to distinguish yourselves from some of the more religious mainstream ( such as the Catholic Church) you follow the same fundamental teachings and have the same faith in Resurrection. If it were not for the Catholic Church in fact, Christianity would be a long forgotten cult that was squashed in the 1-2 century CE. It was Catholic/Orthodox bishops and politicians that pieced together the book all Christians adhere to. It was bronze age mystics that wrote the stories in those books.

Hugs,
CC

And to you to brother.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

The events I decipher from the Bible are very far from love indeed. There is rape, murder, sexism , war, bullying, infanticide, genocide, racism, homophobia, plundering , sociopath-like tendencies, masochism, arson, animal abuse, theft, pedophilia, and other morally questionable events that are all sanctioned by the same god we are claiming as a loving god. I can also quote verses in the Bible where god sanctions all the aforementioned but for the sake of brevity I won't unless you really want me to.

Just like the Beetle's song..."All you need is love...". Unfortunately...I think religion has polluted the message and added to the spiritual teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. I think we Christians have a lot of it totally wrong...just like the Jews did when Jesus arrived on the scene. I'm still searching for truth and finding more of it each day.

The bible you derive your morality and truth from was the same bible sanctioned by a host of bishops when Rome declared its first state-based monotheistic religion. As much as you like to distinguish yourselves from some of the more religious mainstream ( such as the Catholic Church) you follow the same fundamental teachings and have the same faith in Resurrection. If it were not for the Catholic Church in fact, Christianity would be a long forgotten cult that was squashed in the 1-2 century CE. It was Catholic/Orthodox bishops and politicians that pieced together the book all Christians adhere to. It was bronze age mystics that wrote the stories in those books.

​

Ooooooohhhh let me in, let me in . . .

 

[chingchang]

What I meant by explicit atheist was more like did you actually call yourself an atheist? Not only that , did you rationalize ( presumably through reason) why you didn't prefer faith as a method for determining truth from falsehood?

Gotcha. Uh...yes...I called myself an atheist. And yes to your second question above.

Did you ask him any critical questions about his faith beforehand? Was he open to criticism?

Yes and yes. One thing to consider...if indeed there is a relationship between age and wisdom...is that I was only 17 at the time. Having known him beforehand and having seen the changes take place in his life was proof-enough for me. I guess I was a lazy atheist.

It sounds like someone talked you into an alternative. Which is fine but I am interested in knowing your level of skepticism regarding this event in your life.

I have no skepticism at all about the vision. I had never experienced anything like it before...I haven't experienced anything like it since. I went to bed an atheist and woke up a believer. It was just as real...to me...as what I'm experiencing right now...typing...but WAY more cool.

You know I'm going to ask it but is there anyway you can objectively prove this?

I guess not? Funny how God works...

By the way, did you notice something very key here. Somehow, you recieve the vision 'while sleeping.' It is also coincidental that we tend to dream and our dreams are not subject to the constraints of material reality. In a dream there is no consistency in the 'external' world from our perspective. Quite the case, anything is possible.
It is strange that you did not recieve this from God outside of your sleep which might make a more interesting case.

I agree. But this is how it went-down none-the-less. Probably to make it harder for people to accept. The Bible says it takes faith to please God. I'm not defending it...it is what it is.

So you felt it was unnecessary to be skeptical of your dream?

If it was a dream I would have been skeptical...and if it didn't change me to the core...I would have been skeptical. It was like I was reprogrammed...overnight.

Especially when it compels you to make an objective claim about reality?

I know. It is hard to accept...

If you were an atheist that was familiar with what would constitute actual proof you wouldn't have taken a personal subjective dream as valid evidence. Personally, I would have been skeptical of such a powerful dream. Again, if I maybe thought it *might* be from God, then I wouldn't be afraid to be skeptical of it because if is true, it could stand to scrutiny. If I felt this dream would have such a profound effect on my life I would've sought a professional psychologist to help me, perhaps, revisit this dream , and try to interpret its meaning. I, for one , strongly believe dreams are not just random neural firings in our brains but rather representative of a particular condition in our subconscious.

...wasn't a dream. I'm so confident in that I'd take a bullet in the head for it. I know that drives you crazy...I'm sorry.

If this were the case it wouldn't be sensible that god would chose you as a messenger to others. Why? Because people with critical thought would question the validity of a dream that's impossible for you to prove or present empirical evidence for. God can just as easily give me , the skeptics on this forum, and indeed, the entire human race the same dream so all can come to the realization that you have.

Maybe he didn't choose me to be a messenger. Maybe that is just what I think. One thing is for sure though...he did choose to make himself known to me and I can't put in words how awesome it is.

But you claim god exists with a strong degree of certainty.

...yup...I'd take a bullet in the head. I'd probably take something more painful and prolonged...but I REALLY don't want that.

That is a positive claim and the burden of proof shifts to you. As a former atheist ( and I assume rationalist) I'm sure you understand this.

The proof was given to me for me...and I believe for me to tell others. Some will accept it...some won't.

I have read the Bible twice. Two versions: KJ and a new Catholic version. What I get from it is very different than you.

I bet ya what we get out of the Bible is similar...let's see.

The book is accurate insofar as correctly describing the level of knowledge and prejudice of the mystics that wrote the various books in the Bible. It is fitting for their era.

Agreed.

The events I decipher from the Bible are very far from love indeed. There is rape, murder, sexism , war, bullying, infanticide, genocide, racism, homophobia, plundering , sociopath-like tendencies, masochism, arson, animal abuse, theft, pedophilia, and other morally questionable events that are all sanctioned by the same god we are claiming as a loving god. I can also quote verses in the Bible where god sanctions all the aforementioned but for the sake of brevity I won't unless you really want me to.

Agreed. It is very difficult to reconcile the God of the OT with what the Apostle John wrote (if he was the one that actually authored the Gospel of John)...that is..."God is love". O.k. And what is love? Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 13. So...yes...hard to believe that the God that commanded the killing of 'sucklings' is worth of anything but fear...and the NT tells us that "there is no fear in love".

The bible you derive your morality and truth from was the same bible sanctioned by a host of bishops when Rome declared its first state-based monotheistic religion. As much as you like to distinguish yourselves from some of the more religious mainstream ( such as the Catholic Church) you follow the same fundamental teachings and have the same faith in Resurrection.

Not really...but yes...I do have faith that Jesus rose from the dead.

If it were not for the Catholic Church in fact, Christianity would be a long forgotten cult that was squashed in the 1-2 century CE. It was Catholic/Orthodox bishops and politicians that pieced together the book all Christians adhere to. It was bronze age mystics that wrote the stories in those books.

I know and agree. See the last couple sentences from my previous post.



Free Hugs,
CC

 

[CauseAndEffect]

Gotcha. Uh...yes...I called myself an atheist. And yes to your second question above.

Excellent, so why did you prefer reason to faith ( before your conversion, of course) as a valid method for determining truth from falsehood? Conversly, why did you see faith later as a more valid method? In other words , how did faith come to yield more truth value in your eyes?

Yes and yes. One thing to consider...if indeed there is a relationship between age and wisdom...is that I was only 17 at the time. Having known him beforehand and having seen the changes take place in his life was proof-enough for me. I guess I was a lazy atheist.

What kind of questions do you remember asking?

And it depends on what you mean by wisdom and in what context. Wisdom in relation to what? So let me get this straight, seeing your friend adopt turn into a believer and changing his life around was compelling enough evidence for the existence of God? It was compelling enough evidence to go ahead and make the positive claim that you know what constructed the universe, how life started , how life became so diverse, the relationship between quantum and Newtonian and Eisensteinian mechanics ( which still baffles scientists) ? In other words , the evidence provided by your friends changes in his personal life was enough to make you far more knowledgeable than some of the most distinguished professors in the sciences?

Because thats what a belief in God , and a believe of God's actives in the Bible infer. Any Christian then with at least a rudimentary understanding of the Bible actually fundamentally knows more about physics , biology, chemistry, cosmology, astrophysics, geology, medical science, than the top people in these respective branches of science. In case you're wondering why I'm saying that, its very simple, biblical knowledge makes positive claims of certainty about fundamental questions about reality that science is humble enough not to admit certainty on, i.e. , bible readers are more knowledgeable about physics than a physicist.

Of course the logical analytical part of your brain right now is looking at the absurdity of that so you're going to have to make up some rationalization for faith-based certainty claims, which doesn't stem from the logical-analytical part of your brain.

I have no skepticism at all about the vision. I had never experienced anything like it before...I haven't experienced anything like it since. I went to bed an atheist and woke up a believer. It was just as real...to me...as what I'm experiencing right now...typing...but WAY more cool.

Sounds pretty dramatic and profound. I would've figured as a rational thinking human being you would naturally turn skepticism on a vision like that. If I woke up from sleep right now and I saw a 'demon' which told me my mother will pass away this morning and I as so scared, so frightened, woke up in a cold sweat trembling, I wouldn't believe it to be true without understanding that I had a profoundly moving dream which was able to invoke very passionate emotions within me. Would my mother die the next morning, I don't know , its a possibility but not probable and even less probable that a dream in my mind had anything to do with it.

I guess not? Funny how God works...

Well at least you understand no intelligent and rational thinking person is going to believe it was anything other than a dream.

I agree. But this is how it went-down none-the-less. Probably to make it harder for people to accept. The Bible says it takes faith to please God. I'm not defending it...it is what it is.

Perhaps its difficult for you to accept that such a profoundly moving dream was actually , indeed , just a dream, a contrivance of your vivid imagination. Of course it takes faith to 'please' let alone believe in god. One must let go of all their common sense and rational faculties and faith achieves this.

If it was a dream I would have been skeptical...and if it didn't change me to the core...I would have been skeptical. It was like I was reprogrammed...overnight.

So the less profound something is, it doesn't deserve as much skepticism or no skepticism at all? I would've figured for an atheist that rejected faith based methods of truth seeking this is a no-brainier. The more profound an event, the more skepticism it warrants. Think of skepticism not as some banal position, but rather a 'filter' that you can test a theory, hypothesis, or concept with.

I know. It is hard to accept...

Like I said, it might be hard for you to accept that your dream had no grounding in reality.

...wasn't a dream. I'm so confident in that I'd take a bullet in the head for it. I know that drives you crazy...I'm sorry.

Doesn't drive me crazy but I know the power of faith can drive one to become bullet sponges ( i.e. fighting for god's purpose in the U.S. army or something).

Maybe he didn't choose me to be a messenger. Maybe that is just what I think. One thing is for sure though...he did choose to make himself known to me and I can't put in words how awesome it is.

But you basically inferred that you were compelled by the same dream or 'revelation' to go spread the word about your experience.

...yup...I'd take a bullet in the head. I'd probably take something more painful and prolonged...but I REALLY don't want that.

But the fact that you would reveals something very important. The potential manipulating effects of faith to the point of one willing to kill themselves over it. The Muslims actually bring this into fruition with suicide bombers.

The proof was given to me for me...and I believe for me to tell others. Some will accept it...some won't.

Sure, some will accept on faith. Meaning they are not critical thinkers , much less free thinkers, and will accept any touching and moving story as some kind of objective grounding for reality. The people that wont appeal to reason, not faith.

Agreed. It is very difficult to reconcile the God of the OT with what the Apostle John wrote (if he was the one that actually authored the Gospel of John)...that is..."God is love". O.k. And what is love? Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 13. So...yes...hard to believe that the God that commanded the killing of 'sucklings' is worth of anything but fear...and the NT tells us that "there is no fear in love".

Well, if John really did write the John Gospel, no evidence supports that John was a contemporary of Jesus and likely wrote it at least several decades after Jesus' supposed death. Which makes it even less reliable btw. Incidentally, some of these atrocious acts I mentioned are also found in the NT. The NT is very much like a 'Diet' version of the OT. The Jews and Muslims prefer the strongman god of the OT, Christians would also like the 'Jesus is my buddy' soft-spotted god of the NT. This is why Nietzsche called Christianity a 'weak' ( as in pansy) religion compared to the older ones. But you're comment here presents an interesting question: Do you love god because god is good or do you love good because god is powerful?

Not really...but yes...I do have faith that Jesus rose from the dead.

Everything you know about Jesus and the biblical account of your religion is the information allowed to publish by the Roman Catholic Church.

Free Hugs,
CC

This is getting a bit like a Care Bears episode.

 

[Andreusz]

I believe that God wants me to share this with others so that they will know...but you can't see what I saw...so you'd still have to exercise faith to believe it.

I am incapable of believing anything without evidence. I also don't think that it's good to believe something without evidence. So God's methodology seems inappropriate.

 

[tanzanos]

Now, as I said, Christians like to tell me that I deny God so that I might continue my sinful lifestyle. What sinful lifestyle would that be?

Heathen, Blasphemer! Your sin is denying the Lord God! You are doomed to burn in fire and brimstone.

PS: Since I am in the same predicament I have reserved a suite in Hell and you are welcome to visit; After all 90% of the worlds population (past, present, and future) has and will end up in Hell!

If you go first keep me a good spot, preferably near the women!