Evidences for evolution

mac_philo · Apr 12, 2002

2+2=4 is a universal, analytic truth.
The power of evolution by natural selection is the reality we live in.

The particular equation used by one man to arrive at the number four in a debate on the internet is a contingent, irrelevant fact.

An explanation of one of the first two does not entail an explanation of the third.

unworthyone · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by ThienAn
4=4 ...............whoa la.

All that matters is that the 4 exists and it has purpose.

unworthyone · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by mac_philo
An explanation of one of the first two does not entail an explanation of the third.

Is "how?" even a question that matters? Its an empty question, that will never be fully answered objectively. It will always have an unknown.

ThienAn · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by mac_philo
2+2=4 is a universal, analytic truth.
The power of evolution by natural selection is the reality we live in.

The particular equation used by one man to arrive at the number four in a debate on the internet is a contingent, irrelevant fact.

An explanation of one of the first two does not entail an explanation of the third.

Ok.

Millions of years of theories = evolution

I think that takes a bigger leap of faith than believing in God. Yip, I admit. You have more faith than I do.

ThienAn · Apr 12, 2002

Unworthyone, I was going to bless you because I was joking with you. But as it stands, you have more than I do. So, forget it.

unworthyone · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by ThienAn
Unworthyone, I was going to bless you because I was joking with you. But as it stands, you have more than I do. So, forget it.

Actually I only have 12 now

ThienAn · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by unworthyone

Actually I only have 12 now

Yip, it was me.

unworthyone · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by ThienAn

Yip, it was me.

Ok coolio.

TheBear · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by ThienAn

I know that you understand evolution thoroughly, but what did God tell your faith, your heart, your soul about evolution.

Convince me of what you believe about evolution. Convince me just like the way God convinced you. Understanding evolution from logic & theory is one thing. But understanding it from a believer's point of view is another.

If you believe that God and evolution can co-exist, then someway, somehow, God convinced you of that, right?

I guess what I'm asking is, tell me how God convinced you to believe in evolution?

Actually, mac_philo somewhat summed it up for me. However, 2+2=4 is a mathematical absolute, but in science, there are very few absolutes.

Let me just say that God has convinced me, in my heart and soul, that He did create everything. This faith is validated in scripture. What He did not do, is get into the nuts & bolts of the hows of His creation process. Scripture is devoid of such descriptions. The focal points in the Bible are pretty much the fact that there is a God, and that He did create the universe and all life in it. There are other points, of course, but these two are the central focal points concerning creation. Let's face it, if God wanted us to know the 'nitty-gritty' of the hows of His creation process, in the context of Biblical writings and teachings, there would have been untold volumes of divinely inspired books, dedicated to this topic alone.

I cannot convince you of the theory of evolution any more than I can convince you of the theory of electricity, or the theory of gravity. This is where you will have to do the research and study of the subject, for yourself. Only then will you be able to give any plausability to the concept.

John

ThienAn · Apr 12, 2002

TheBear, I admit that there are a few absolute truths to this physical world, such as physics, mathematics, and science in general. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time I heard, evolution generally states that homosapien came from apes.

So, if you believe God and evolution at the same time, then the question becomes, was Adam a homosapien that God created aside from evolution, or did Adam come from evolution(being some ape)?

A Christian · Apr 12, 2002

When those who accept the THEORY of evolution are
willing to investigate Hydrodynamic Selectivity and
Catastrophism with regard to fossil formation, then
and only then will HONEST scientific investigation
become more objective and less driven by a need
to PROVE that the act of CREATION was solely a
godless process. Until that time, science is another
word for opinion control and whomever is the loudest
holds the "public's" attention....

ThienAn · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by TheBear
Let's face it, if God wanted us to know the 'nitty-gritty' of the hows of His creation process, in the context of Biblical writings and teachings, there would have been untold volumes of divinely inspired books, dedicated to this topic alone.

I agree. If this was to be written in the bible, who knows how massive it would be. But since it isn't, and since I know that God speaks to believers through faith, then either God has spoken to you on this subject matter, or you just came to believe this on your own will & understanding(which is very dangerous).

God hasn't given me the knowledge to understand evolution. So, I don't have any knowledge of it. The knowledge that is out there, all came from the logic of men; which I won't trust - even if it's 100%.

God gave you a full cup of faith, and you pour half of it into the cup of evolution, and maybe else where as well. If you haven't annoyed God, maybe He'll just leave that half emptied cup alone(the cup that belongs to Him), maybe He'll be graceful and refill it - maybe He'll take it all away.

If you're going to put your faith in something, make sure that something came from God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit.

Ray K · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by A Christian
When those who accept the THEORY of evolution are
willing to investigate Hydrodynamic Selectivity and
Catastrophism with regard to fossil formation, then
and only then will HONEST scientific investigation
become more objective and less driven by a need
to PROVE that the act of CREATION was solely a
godless process. Until that time, science is another
word for opinion control and whomever is the loudest
holds the "public's" attention....

Catastrophism was the prevailing theory for centuries. It was HONEST scientific investigation by geologists that overturned catastrophism in favorable of gradualism.

This had nothing to do with evolution.

Ray K · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by ThienAn
TheBear, I admit that there are a few absolute truths to this physical world, such as physics, mathematics, and science in general. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time I heard, evolution generally states that homosapien came from apes.

So, if you believe God and evolution at the same time, then the question becomes, was Adam a homosapien that God created aside from evolution, or did Adam come from evolution(being some ape)?

I believe that the Catholic Church's position is that at some point God endowed the earliest humans with spirituality.

Of course, they saw the foolishness of interpreting Genesis literally over a millenia ago.

ThienAn · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by Ray K

I believe that the Catholic Church's position is that at some point God endowed the earliest humans with spirituality.

Of course, they saw the foolishness of interpreting Genesis literally over a millenia ago.

This can easily spawn into a different argument, so I won't respond to this comment.

A Christian · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by Ray K

Catastrophism was the prevailing theory for centuries. It was HONEST scientific investigation by geologists that overturned catastrophism in favorable of gradualism.

This had nothing to do with evolution.

Catastrophism was once the prevailing THOUGH.
It was NEVER the THRUST of MODERN
SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION by geologists using
modern techniques except perhaps a few
creationists. Modern geographic THEORY rests
on established opinions promoted in the 19th
century.

Catastrophism has EVERYTHING to do with the
formation of the fossil record which is being
misrepresented and falsely interpreted without
the proper dynamics the Flood adds to the TOTAL
equation...

Ray K · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by A Christian

Catastrophism was once the prevailing THOUGH.
It was NEVER the THRUST of MODERN
SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION by geologists using
modern techniques except perhaps a few
creationists. Modern geographic THEORY rests
on established opinions promoted in the 19th
century.

Catastrophism has EVERYTHING to do with the
formation of the fossil record which is being
misrepresented and falsely interpreted without
the proper dynamics the Flood adds to the TOTAL
equation...

Are you seriously suggesting that a single, catastrophic flood can explain the formation and ordering of the fossil record?

Primitive invertebrates on bottom, followed by fish, amphibians, reptiles, mammals & birds on the upper layers? Boy, I'd love to hear this theory.

A Christian · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by Ray K

Are you seriously suggesting that a single, catastrophic flood can explain the formation and ordering of the fossil record?

Primitive invertebrates on bottom, followed by fish, amphibians, reptiles, mammals & birds on the upper layers? Boy, I'd love to hear this theory.

Yes, I am. This was a MEGA catastrophy of the
worse kind you CAN'T even IMAGINE!
Many aquatic animals are dumped on by mud and
silt. They have nowhere to go! The reptiles
are cold blooded and any cold would have slowed
them down. The dinosaur is limited to where he
can run! He is big and he can't climb everywhere.
The smaller mammals have the most earth bound
ability, but they soon run out of land, caves,
mountains, etc... Birds! Well, birds have the best
opportunity they can fly! They likely were the
very last to be completely annihilated in the Flood.
Birds can look for perches from high up; however,
they can't fly for 40 days...

Ray K · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by A Christian

Yes, I am. This was a MEGA catastrophy of the
worse kind you CAN'T even IMAGINE!
Many aquatic animals are dumped on by mud and
silt. They have nowhere to go! The reptiles
are cold blooded and any cold would have slowed
them down. The dinosaur is limited to where he
can run! He is big and he can't climb everywhere.
The smaller mammals have the most earth bound
ability, but they soon run out of land, caves,
mountains, etc... Birds! Well, birds have the best
opportunity they can fly! They likely were the
very last to be completely annihilated in the Flood.
Birds can look for perches from high up; however,
they can't fly for 40 days...

And so the trap is sprung. Are you telling me that the flowering plants only escaped halfway up the mountains before they were overcome with water? You do know that flowering plants do not appear in the rocks until the late Cretaceous, right?

And what about dead, injured and infant mammals & birds? Are you suggesting that they suddenly outran the dinosaurs up the mountain?

You DEFINITELY need to read something besides outdated creationist propaganda. Really.

TheBear · Apr 12, 2002

Originally posted by ThienAn
TheBear, I admit that there are a few absolute truths to this physical world, such as physics, mathematics, and science in general. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time I heard, evolution generally states that homosapien came from apes.

So, if you believe God and evolution at the same time, then the question becomes, was Adam a homosapien that God created aside from evolution, or did Adam come from evolution(being some ape)?

The error in your analogy is that evolution does not have Humanoids evolving from Primates. Rather, both have a common origin. Some reffer to it as the "Missing Link". However, in the scientific community there are many indicators supporting this view, in the Transitional Vertebrate Fossil Record. I do not think that a tittle here, and a jot there, on an internet discussion board, does any justice to such an in-depth and complex subject. You really will have to do some serious reaserch for yourself, to even get an intelligent overview of the subject.

I believe, and the current models and evidence show extremely high probability that, in the grand scheme of things, God created the catylist, (for lack of better layman's terms), for this evolutionary change to take place.

John

Evidences for evolution

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