Evidence

[KCfromNC]

This is precisely the useless insulting talk I was speaking of. The poster this^ comment is aimed at said nothing short of his belief, when questioned. And this is his response. Instead of a legitimate discussion the poster is met with mockery.
No discussion is productive with this behavior.

Interesting response. For some reason, using the methods outlined as a valid way to determine the truth of a subject is offensive when it is used to determine the truth of the wrong type of fantastic claim. No reasons are given for this special pleading, but it is obviously quite offensive to consistently apply the tools offered up by apologists to the wrong subject.

I'd be curious to know why this sort of consistent investigation is so objectionable. If the process leads to obvious nonsense when applied to situations other than the desired god-based outcome, the person pointing that out isn't at fault.

 

[bhsmte]

I'd be curious to know why this sort of consistent investigation is so objectionable. If the process leads to obvious nonsense when applied to situations other than the desired god-based outcome, the person pointing that out isn't at fault.

Easy answer; some people's faith beliefs are more fragile and objective investigation posses a serious threat to their beliefs and is to be avoided at all costs.

Sort of like how that robot on "Lost In Space" acted when it sensed aliens were approaching; Danger, Danger!!!!

 

[essentialsaltes]

I liken it to the appreciation of art, everyone comes away with a different experience of the composition, no one interpretation is perfect. We agree the art is there......but then some Atheist with a rebellious, contrarian spirit, will start asking stupid questions like "how do we know that's art?"

What if it isn't art? People can in fact be mistaken about the existence of art.

Why was it the art community mistook it for art? Was it that they think about art so much that they see it everywhere?

why do people mistake something they feel for gods? Is it because they think about their gods so much that they feel them everywhere?

 

[kristina411]

Easy answer; some people's faith beliefs are more fragile and objective investigation posses a serious threat to their beliefs and is to be avoided at all costs.

Sort of like how that robot on "Lost In Space" acted when it sensed aliens were approaching; Danger, Danger!!!!

Where is your evidence to make this claim? You are speaking as if it were a fact. Please provide adequate reliable proof of the authenticity of your claims above, or your "personal experience" is pointless.

 

[Colter]

Here's another reason why people are often put offside with you: you baselessly cast aspersions on their character, calling them insincere. You seem to have great difficulty accepting the fact that someone could sincerely not believe what you believe. When they express their sincere doubt at your claims, you accuse them of being "argumentative" and "antagonistic." My impression is that you question their sincerity because you have no way of answering their questions. Your UB quotations don't substitute for a carefully thought-out answer.

That is true, I have conceded that on many occasions with you and others. You should know this, in fact, I think you do know this, that the inner relationship between God and man is indescribable and unprovable in any absolute sense. Therefore, when a spiritualist is questioned by a materialist using the material approach, we must resort to analogies. But when we do that the questions just multiply. 2 questions becomes 4, 4 becomes 8, 8 becomes 16,32,48 and then others chime in with more......

I don't care that people are put-off by me, and spare me the psychobabble and your failed attempts at guilt tripping doctor!! I absolutely question the motives of Atheist who join Christian forums pretending to "just want to understand" while mocking us as imagining gods and something about Star Trek, and Santa clause and all that garbage!

 

[bhsmte]

Where is your evidence to make this claim? You are speaking as if it were a fact. Please provide adequate reliable proof of the authenticity of your claims above, or your "personal experience" is pointless.

Read these board, there are countless reactions of; "I am being persecuted" from some Christians when even the most simple questions are asked of them about their faith.

Extreme defensiveness, is typically a really good clue someone is hiding or protecting something.

Every so often, I will come across a Christian on these boards that will admit; I don't have evidence of my faith, other than my personal experience and I understand why you don't believe as I do and will also admit, I could be wrong about my belief, but I have faith they are correct. These types of Christians, also avoid making claims about their faith, they feel should apply to others, and or claim others aren't trying hard enough if they don't believe as they do.

The above doesn't happen often, but boy is it refreshing when it does and I completely respect their position and would never question their faith, in those circumstances.

 

[kristina411]

I absolutely question the motives of Atheist who join Christian forums pretending to "just want to understand" while mocking us as imagining gods and something about Star Trek, and Santa clause and all that garbage!

^this. Not nearly all of the posters are like this but the ones who are cause any profitable discussion impossible.
I am done in this thread though lol.

 

[Colter]

What if it isn't art? People can in fact be mistaken about the existence of art.

Why was it the art community mistook it for art? Was it that they think about art so much that they see it everywhere?

why do people mistake something they feel for gods? Is it because they think about their gods so much that they feel them everywhere?

You can be just as mistaken about the non-existence of God, yet make doubts into a religion. Their is an astonishing arrogance in the argument that the billions of people of faith are just imagining things and conspire to pull your leg!

 

[kristina411]

Read these board, there are countless reactions of; "I am being persecuted" from some Christians when even the most simple questions are asked of them about their faith.

Extreme defensiveness, is typically a really good clue someone is hiding or protecting something.

Every so often, I will come across a Christian on these boards that will admit; I don't have evidence of my faith, other than my personal experience and I understand why you don't believe as I do and will also admit, I could be wrong about my belief, but I have faith they are correct. These types of Christians, also avoid making claims about their faith, they feel should apply to others, and or claim others aren't trying hard enough if they don't believe as they do.

The above doesn't happen often, but boy is it refreshing when it does and I completely respect their position and would never question their faith, in those circumstances.

This is your perception, not evidence.
Show evidence that your perception of Christians is accurate and not bigoted, or again your claims are useless.

 

[bhsmte]

This is your perception, not evidence.
Show evidence that your perception of Christians is accurate and not bigoted, or again your claims are useless.

Every post on these boards is evidence as to how people react in different situations and give us clues to what they are about.

And yes, it is my perception of this evidence that I conclude what I do. You are free to disagree.

 

[KCfromNC]

Yes! Please do all you can to find the truth, just remember that this is not some fairy tale to the believers. This is more important than our own lives, many Christians lay down their lives for their views. These aren't just the radicals. Once a person becomes truly committed to their faith (beyond the beginning stages of acceptance) ones life drastically changes.

Just as long as you remember that sincere belief doesn't give anyone special privileges. Discussion of things you believe - even if that discussion isn't uncritical acceptance - are not personal attacks, no matter how sincerely you believe them. Just as you have a sincere religious belief, I have a sincere belief that simply having a religious belief doesn't make them immune from discussion if the believer brings them out into public.

So to approach a person about their faith

Who was the OP of this thread again?

 

[KCfromNC]

So nobody's beliefs could be declared wrong? Everybody is simultaneously right, even when one person's beliefs contradict another persons?

Everyone is a special snowflake, except those subversive atheist types.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

That is true, I have conceded that on many occasions with you and others. You should know this, in fact, I think you do know this, that the inner relationship between God and man is indescribable and unprovable in any absolute sense.

If you recall, I've already asked you to address this on more than one occasion (1, 2, 3).

Therefore, when a spiritualist is questioned by a materialist using the material approach, we must resort to analogies. But when we do that the questions just multiply. 2 questions becomes 4, 4 becomes 8, 8 becomes 16,32,48 and then others chime in with more......

What approach would you have me adopt? What is the "spiritualist" method for determining whether a revelation is genuinely divine?

If you're keeping track, you'll notice that the questions haven't actually multiplied at all. I've been asking you the same question for some time now.

I don't care that people are put-off by me, and spare me the psychobabble and your failed attempts at guilt tripping doctor!! I absolutely question the motives of Atheist who join Christian forums pretending to "just want to understand" while mocking us as imagining gods and something about Star Trek, and Santa clause and all that garbage!

I've alerted you to the following two facts on multiple occasions: (1) this section of the forum is open to nonbelievers, and (2) many nonbelievers here were once believers and joined this forum as such.

 

[kristina411]

Every post on these boards is evidence as to how people react in different situations and give us clues to what they are about.

And yes, it is my perception of this evidence that I conclude what I do. You are free to disagree.

You have yet to actually show me evidence, there for your perception is of no importance. I'm just going by your rules now.

You can "point to" something but it doesn't prove evidence. Unless you were to do a full poll about each Christians belief and attitude. And even then there can be flaws.

 

[bhsmte]

You have yet to actually show me evidence, there for your perception is of no importance. I'm just going by your rules now.

You can "point to" something but it doesn't prove evidence. Unless you were to do a full poll about each persons belief.

You are free to disagree with my perception of the content of posts on this board.

 

[kristina411]

You are free to disagree with my perception of the content of posts on this board.

I not only disagree but I declare them useless and bigoted, unless you can provide evidence against such claim. If not, this is where we are left.

 

[Colter]

If you recall, I've already asked you to address this on more than one occasion (1, 2, 3).



What approach would you have me adopt? What is the "spiritualist" method for determining whether a revelation is genuinely divine?



I've alerted you to the following two facts on multiple occasions: (1) this section of the forum is open to nonbelievers, and (2) many nonbelievers here were once believers and joined this forum as such.

* Surrender to the God within your own soul with a whole heart, one on one. The gift of faith is self validating.

* I didn't say Atheist can't come here, I'm just calling out their evil motives.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You can be just as mistaken about the non-existence of God, yet make doubts into a religion.

How does one make doubts into a religion? That doesn't even make sense.

Their is an astonishing arrogance in the argument that the billions of people of faith are just imagining things and conspire to pull your leg!

Believers seem to have no qualms in thinking that other believers, those who believe in different gods specifically, are mistaken. Are they also being arrogant?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

* Surrender to the God within your own soul with a whole heart, one on one. The gift of faith is self validating.

How does this help in sorting truthful revelations from false ones when those who do as you suggest often still end up with differing theological commitments? They have "self-validated" their commitments.

* I didn't say Atheist can't come here, I'm just calling out their evil motives.

No, you're being rude. Several atheists have explicitly outlined their motives to you. You've ignored what they've said and basically accused them of lying.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I don't care that people are put-off by me, and spare me the psychobabble and your failed attempts at guilt tripping doctor!! I absolutely question the motives of Atheist who join Christian forums pretending to "just want to understand" while mocking us as imagining gods and something about Star Trek, and Santa clause and all that garbage!

By the way, I find it amusing that the guy who posts stuff like this (see below) accuses me of psychobabble.

The realization of the recognition of spiritual values is an experience which is superideational. There is no word in any human language which can be employed to designate this “sense,” “feeling,” “intuition,” or “experience” which we have elected to call God-consciousness. The spirit of God that dwells in man is not personal — the Adjuster is prepersonal — but this Monitor presents a value, exudes a flavor of divinity, which is personal in the highest and infinite sense. If God were not at least personal, he could not be conscious, and if not conscious, then would he be infrahuman. " UB 1955

I clearly need to align my indwelling superideational adjuster with my prepotent periaqueous infinitizer to realise my heightened endoexomorph self-seed.