Evidence

PamC · Aug 22, 2006

What evidence, if any, in the Bible is there of the gibberish babble (excuse the term as I don't know how better to describe the sounds made) for Pentecostalism today?

Celestron · Aug 22, 2006

PamC said:
What evidence, if any, in the Bible is there of the gibberish babble (excuse the term as I don't know how better to describe the sounds made) for Pentecostalism today?

let me just say that i too have considered all that jibberish babble.... i went from speaking in tongues in my mind to agreeing that most of it is just glossalalia or jibberish... well, we really can't stand in judgment too far as to what God can do... maybe some of these people actually do have the gift of speaking in tongues. i haven't exorcized it in years, but tonight i practiced it again for the first time in a while.... what was it? well, it might have just been what you describe...

the important thing to note though, is what historical and providential thing that pentecostals and charismatics are doing... and restorational... they are trying to get back to a standard at pentecost that many christians were exorcizing.... it seems that God, may just be allowing all this nonsense as you say, just because people are trying to be what the first century christians were.... it's sort of an ideal that we are trying to meet.... to read the bible and be literal with it and if it says people spoke in tongues, then where the heck is it now? it must still he here.... why would the church be different if Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever...

SO.... let's allow them and me the privilege of exorcizing jibberish if it draws us closer to an ideal truth...

LET ME say though... that some of this just might be tongues.... I've spoken things in my prayers whilst doing this and words have come out that are of other languages that i have forgotten for decades.... i used to know spanish for instance and for over a decade couldn't remember some of the words in the day of the week....tonight the Lord brought one to my attention that i had forgotten whilst speaking to him in my utterance....

for your answer though: read the book of acts

PamC · Aug 22, 2006

I read the book of Acts. You said you use to know spanish so that it was not unknown to you (and God takes gifts away when He wants to lead a believer elsewhere, so He took this gift of this tongue away from you), but it was unknown to those who didn't know it. I fear in trying to return to Pentecost it may be done by the power of the flesh.

Jillymac · Aug 22, 2006

1 Corinthians 12 and 14 both talk about speaking in tongues. Tongues is a gift from God, just like healing, just like prophecy, just like deliverance.

It's very real and to be honest you can't believe in one of the above without believing in the rest. We can't pick and choose.

So the real terminolgy for "jibberish" is speaking in tongues.

You can either speak in tongues publicly or privately. Paul gives clear guidance on the acceptable use of both in the chapters i mentioned.

If you are privately speaking in tongues, it is your spirit communicating directly to God's, without any human influence. That may sound like it's pointless because you don't understand what you are saying, but it's not. You are communicating directly to the HOly Spirit and your spirit is being edified.

1 Cor 4:
4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church

With regards to public speaking in tongues - Paul gives us quite a lot of instruction. There's no point standing in front of a congregation and speaking tongues, because no one will understand it (I'll get there about known languages!), God often gives people the unction to stand and speak in tongues, delivering a message from Him. However it is pointless unless someone else delivers the interpretation (the interpretation is from God also). This message will be a direct message from the Lord to His church.

Sometimes people will stand and speak in tongues and then there is no interpretation, this does not mean that the person who spoke in tongues is wrong, for all we know they are being obedient to God, it could mean that the person who gets the interpretation is not being obedient and may be too scared or doubtful that they have the interpretation.

That happened to my husband, he was leading worship and felt the message in tongues flow from him, when no one responded with the interpretation, God gave it to him so he spoke and tongues AND delivered the interpretation.

Sometimes, when people stand to deliver their "tongues" message from God, they will speak and unbeknownst to them they will actually speak in a language known to one or many members of the congregation. it has happened on many occasions. The person delivering the message in tongues, doesn't speak in that language.

There are times when people doubt and say that they must have known that language before, etc. But lets face it, God can do the impossible, God can fill our mouths with words, that we know did not come from ourselves. Don't get me wrong tho, some people do pretend and fake it, but that happens with gifts from God, many people fake healing, fake prophecy, fake deliverance, we need to check all interpretations and messages against scripture - test it.

My main point with speaking in tongues is don't knock it, it is very real and is very clear in scripture. Why would healing be for today and tongues not? They're both in the Bible. They're even in the same chapters together! We can't pick and choose. The Bible tells us that we should desire to speak prophecy - the interpretation of tongues is usually a prophecy,

To speak in tongues you must be baptised in the Holy Spirit. You can just ASK God for this, and then believe. ASK, BELIEVE and RECEIVE. You only have to open your mouth and in faith it comes out. Sometimes it comes out in syllables that eventually develop into sentences, or sometimes you'll get sentences straight off (like I did). I ask to receive the gift of tongues for about a year before I realised that all i had to do was open my mouth and in faith I had sentences pouring from within me. I couldn't control the urge to speak in tongues for about a month afterwards - It was amazing.

Speaking in tongues is only ONE sign that you are baptised with the Holy Spirit, not the only. I think that's another myth that people cast up and use as ammo against those who speak in tongues.

Please feel free to ask questions on this, many of us on this forum speak in tongues and will be glad to answer your questions (as much as we can anyway!)

KleinerApfel · Aug 22, 2006

PamC · Aug 22, 2006

Jil,

I don't think the issue is whether the matter is speaking in tongues, but what tongues is.

Is it gibberish babble or is it actual language that is supernaturally given as some receive this gift of speaking languages to build the body of Christ?

If it is gibberish babble, where in the Scriptures do you find it?

Jillymac · Aug 22, 2006

Tongues is a heavenly language, so yes it is supernaturally given as a gift to you from God. We may think it sounds gibberish but then there are loads of things that God understands and we don't. God does give us the means to understand the "gibberish" though, He tells us to ask for the gift of interpretation or prophecy.
In 1 corinthians 14 it says:

Gifts of Prophecy and Tongues
1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.[b] 3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[c] but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,[d] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.

Therefore tongues edifies the church, but only if the interpretation is given. And speaking in tongues privately it edifies your own spirit. Below is the guidance for doing this - you should pray both in spirit (in tongues) and in your own language, so you can express the praise and worship from your own heart and you understand it.

13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.

22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers.

As it says in verse 22, tongues are a sign to unbelievers, they would be curious as to what this language is. Some people do just think it's madness and never think to seek what it really is and that it is scriptural. But if they decide to believe that it is of God then they may be open to hear the interpretation which would be a message from God and in turn edifies the church.

It's not gibberish babble, so you won't find that exact phrase in the Bible no.

irenemcg · Aug 22, 2006

PamC said:
Jil,

I don't think the issue is whether the matter is speaking in tongues, but what tongues is.

Is it gibberish babble or is it actual language that is supernaturally given as some receive this gift of speaking languages to build the body of Christ?

If it is gibberish babble, where in the Scriptures do you find it?

Why would tongues be gibberish babble?

Who is it that gives believers tongues? The Holy Spirit himself gives it so if I were you I would be careful in using such a term. When we pray in tongues we use a language that God hears and understands, it is for personal edification, praying mysteries in the spirit we could be interceding for someone unknown to us. The Spirit touches our spirits and we pray in the spirit.Speaking in tongues is for me a way of worshipping and communing with God when I run out of words to say in English.

1Co 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Co 12:11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels,

Tongues are tongues of men and of angels, an unknown language, an utterance, which is not known to us but known to God for He can interpret and understand it.

How can we, by the way, ever demean a gift of the Spirit?

I don't know what you have been taught in your church but the sign gifts are for today. God gives the gifts. So, I think Christians need to be careful about rejecting what is God given.

CrazyforYeshua · Aug 22, 2006

It's not gibberish, I can tell ya that.
I know of 2 instances, where God used them. One was Jack Hayford, sitting on a plane talking to a man of Native American descent. God told him to speak his prayer language, and pastor Hayford at first said no, he'll think I'm nuts. God told him again. So, he asked this man to interpret something he had seen written in a Native American language, He said yes, so Pastor Hayford said a prayer, and started speaking. When he was done, the man said it wasn't his official language, but a dialect of it, and it said something about a light shining down from above.
The other instance is a man in my area, that has a wonderful ministry. He was raised Jewish, and had come to the realization that Yeshua was indeed the Messiah, and got saved. He went to a service one evening, and God spoke to him to give $50 when the offering came around. He, too, tried to argue with God, but gave it. At the end of this service, they started talking about the Baptism of the Spirit. he listened and thought, what the heck, I paid 50 bucks, I'll go down. A man offered to pray for him. As this man was praying, Sandy said it sounded real familiar, then realized he was praying in Hebrew. When the man finished praying, Sandy said how cool you speak Hebrew. The man looked at him and said, I don't speak Hebrew. Sandy said I listened to you, you prayed in Hebrew, and the man reiterated, I don't know how to speak Hebrew. That's when Sandy knew he needed what this man had.
Those 2 examples make me realize, God will use tongues for many reasons. Either to draw us to Him, or to show us what we need to employ His gifts in our lives.

AllTalkNoAction · Aug 22, 2006

Isa:28:11: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
:12: To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

It may sound "stammering" / repetetive to some as they don't know the nuances of these languages.
The speaker will be "a barbarian" to the hearer.

This Etymology dictionary says:-
1338, from M.L. barbarinus, from L. barbaria "foreign country," from Gk. barbaros "foreign, strange, ignorant," from PIE base *barbar- echoic of unintelligible speech of foreigners (cf. Skt. barbara- "stammering," also "non-Aryan"). Barbaric is first recorded 1490, from O.Fr. barbarique, from L. barbaricus "foreign, strange, outlandish." Barbarous is first attested 1526.

Other people recognising the speech is the exception, not the rule - it happened at Pentecost cos the hearers were all bi-lingual and God used that, but even they were not being preached to, Peter had to speak to them in the common learned language before they understood the gospel.
In Our meetings there have been a couple of occasuions where visitors from other countries have recognised some of a gift of tongues.

But, as in the bible, the main purpose of tongues is private "prayer in the Spirit" that builds people's faith in God and keeps them in his love, things which non-tongue speakers don't yet appreciate (Jude 19-21).

Hisgirl · Aug 22, 2006

Linda, a friend of mine, wondered if she was speaking true tongues or if she was just making it up. She was in Europe and visiting a local church.

Down by the altar, she began to quietly pray in her prayer language. A man close by tapped her on the shoulder and asked, "How is it you are able to speak in that language?"

She asked him what he meant and he told her he was a linguist and she was talking in a 17th Century French language. It confirmed to her what she needed and I would imagine it sounded quite beautiful too...

I also know a minister who has a russian minister friend. When the Russian man prays in tongues, his language is perfect English.

AllTalkNoAction · Aug 22, 2006

Hisgirl said:
. . .
I also know a minister who has a russian minister friend. When the Russian man prays in tongues, his language is perfect English.

Err, I'd like to speak to this Russion, can you get his number & PM it to me please.

Jillymac · Aug 22, 2006

Hisgirl said:
I also know a minister who has a russian minister friend. When the Russian man prays in tongues, his language is perfect English.

How cool, I know it's simple but I never really thought about it the other way around, that people would possibly speak in tongues and end up speaking English!

heron · Aug 22, 2006

Hisgirl said:
A man close by tapped her on the shoulder and asked, "How is it you are able to speak in that language?"

She asked him what he meant and he told her he was a linguist and she was talking in a 17th Century French language.

How magnifique!

talitha · Aug 22, 2006

Cool - I was with a group of people praying over a newly-saved heroin addict in Mexico - who started speaking in English as we prayed over him - first it was praises to God - and we were like and then he couldn't stop and he was saying things (in English) like "hey, what's going on? I can't understand what I'm saying?" so (haha) we got a guy in our group who spoke in Spanish to interpret what he was saying back to him, and to talk inbetween about what was going on...... anyway, the interpreter and another guy in our group who was an ex-addict took him to a hospital to get checked out and possibly admitted to a drug rehab program.

......which brings me to this - it has been discovered that speaking in tongues can help us overcome strongholds such as addictions. Not long before this occurance I shared about, our whole group had read the story of a missionary to China named Jackie Pullinger, who discovered that if a heroin addict would get saved, the Lord would give them a prayer language, and the exercising of the prayer language would speed up the sobering process and aid in total recovery.

I think it's because when we are praying in the spirit, we are edifying ourselves, or building ourselves up in our inner man, which is what we need in order to subdue the flesh. (Oh wow, I just got a revelation for myself, thankyou Jesus!)

blessings
tal

Jillymac · Aug 22, 2006

That's some revelation Tal - thank you for sharing that!!

stelow · Aug 22, 2006

The word tongue in the bible means language, so if the the language spoken is a real human language it would not be considered gibberish.

BenAdam · Aug 22, 2006

stelow said:
The word tongue in the bible means language, so if the the language spoken is a real human language it would not be considered gibberish.

you are assuming that the language must be human then. Human language can sound like gibberish to one that is not familier with it.

jrlinz · Aug 22, 2006

Although I have never personally spoken in tongues, I do know it is biblical, from God. Even Mary, mother of Jesus, spoke in tongues. Those who say it is not biblical, generally quote this scripture:
"whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away" (1 Cor. 13:8).

It is, in my opinion, a very contorted, twisted, desperately stretched interpretation of this scripture that would cause one to arrive at that decision. When I am given this scripture, I have to ask, "it also says that all knowledge will vanish away, did it start with you?".

My family did not believe when I was a boy. I never knew the power of good until I was invited into a pentecostal church as a teen. That power almost bowled me over. A lot of tongue-talking went on in that service. I thought it was a little creepy at the time, but there was NO denying the benevolence of the power I sensed there.

stelow · Aug 22, 2006

BenAdam said:
you are assuming that the language must be human then. Human language can sound like gibberish to one that is not familier with it.

What other language would a human speak? Someone will always be able to understand a real language, but gibberish is always going to be gibberish.

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